NP - for the Ukraine discussion group

[jody2.718]

DM:

Unfortunately, we NEVER get the world we WANT (no matter how much better
off we’d all be if we would only BE what you WANT).

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Can't hurt to try.

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, March 6th, 2022 at 2:21 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Unfortunately, we NEVER get the world we WANT (no matter how much better off we’d all be if we would only BE what you WANT).
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 9:11 PM jody2.718 via Pynchon-l <pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>
>> "@JuliaDavisNews
>> · Mar 2
>> Russian state media is having a field day with Ret. Col. Doug Macgregor's
>> recent suggestion on Fox News that the people of Ukraine should really just
>> lie down and let Putin have his way."
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> I doubt that Russia will permit itself to lose militarily. But whether provoked or not,
>>
>> Putin has overplayed his hand and Russia, Ukraine and the World loses either way.
>>
>> This war is a huge distraction from what the world needs now. If we are going to keep the
>>
>> the last Two Horseman of the Apocalypse from saddling up- and they're rarin' to go- then
>>
>> we need to stop focusing on absurd nationalistic pretenses and come together to deal with the
>>
>> real crises facing us all. Is it possible? Is a Bear Catholic? Shit, I'll settle for Orthodox,
>>
>> even secular humanist, at this point.
>>
>> Would Russia tolerate an independent democratic Ukraine not in or armed by NATO- no advisers,
>>
>> missles or other Western threats? Here's some quotes from Putin's address to the United Nations
>>
>> General Assembly on the anniversary of its 70th anniversary, 9/28/2015:
>>
>> "
>>
>> Dear colleagues, ensuring peace and regional and global stability remains the key objective of
>>
>> the international community with the U.N. at its helm. We believe this means creating a space of
>>
>> equal and indivisible security, which is not for the select few but for everyone. Yet, it is a
>>
>> challenge and complicated and time-consuming task, but there is simply no other alternative.
>>
>> However, the bloc thinking of the times of the Cold War and the desire to explore new geopolitical
>>
>> areas is still present among some of our colleagues.
>>
>> First, they continue their policy of expanding
>>
>> NATO. What for? If the Warsaw Bloc stopped its existence, the Soviet Union have collapsed (ph) and,
>>
>> nevertheless, the (sic) NATO continues expanding as well as its military infrastructure. Then they offered
>>
>> the poor Soviet countries a false choice: either to be with the West or with the East. Sooner or later,
>>
>> this logic of confrontation was bound to spark off a grave geopolitical crisis. This is exactly what
>>
>> happened in Ukraine, where the discontent of population with the current authorities was used and the
>>
>> military coup was orchestrated from outside — that triggered a civil war as a result.
>>
>> We're confident
>>
>> that only through full and faithful implementation of the Minsk agreements of February 12th, 2015,
>>
>> can we put an end to the bloodshed and find a way out of the deadlock. Ukraine's territorial integrity
>>
>> cannot be ensured by threat of force and force of arms. What is needed is a genuine consideration for
>>
>> the interests and rights of the people in the Donbas region and respect for their choice. There is a
>>
>> need to coordinate with them as provided for by the Minsk agreements, the key elements of the country's
>>
>> political structure. These steps will guarantee that Ukraine will develop as a civilized society, as an
>>
>> essential link and building a common space of security and economic cooperation, both in Europe and in
>>
>> Eurasia.
>>
>> "
>>
>> A lot to quibble with there, but basically all moot at this point. We don't have the time or luxury of doing
>>
>> this crazy shit to ourselves. After the war, and it will end, who's going to rebuild Ukraine? Resettle all
>>
>> the displaced humans? The only
>>
>> faint glimmer of hope in all this is that the sacrifices of the suffering
>>
>> people
>>
>> on all sides will be a call, not to arms, but to cooperate, beginning with with the Ukraine and
>>
>> spreading outward, inspiring humanity with the courage to deal with our real and pressing problems,
>>
>> before it's too late.
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l