DeLillo adaptations

[Mark Thibodeau]

Have you read Zero K and/or Point Omega? I think they're among his best,
and both are post-Underworld offerings.

Also, and this is open to anyone reading this... have any of you read
Cormac McCarthy's The Passenger? And, if so, do you have any opinions about
it, and are you looking forward to its sequel/coda, Stella Maris? It's one
of the McCarthy's I haven't read yet, and I'm trying to decide which to
read now (The Orchard Keeper, Suttree, the Border Trilogy, and now The
Passenger/Stella Maris duology).

Jerky

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 12:10 PM Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I would have to say that Don DeLillo is my 3rd-favorite writer,
> after Gaddis & Pynchon.
>
> my three favorite books are
>
> Libra
> The Names
> Americana
>
> but I also really really like Amazons, Underworld (really especially the
> bit published in Harper's as "Pafko At the Wall"), Running Dog, End Zone,
> Ratner's Star and Great Jones Street. A-and White Noise! I am less enamored
> of the later DeLillo where he finds the desert and his middle-aged white
> men wander about in it wondering & pondering their collective orbs. It was
> OK in the (relatively) small doses in Underworld, but come on. And I
> thought "The Silence" was, well, subpar. Still a better read than most
> books, though!
>
> As for Kubrick, he also did a pretty great "Lolita," with VN's "help;" it
> was somewhat faithful and somewhat unfaithful to the book, like Lo herself!
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 2:44 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> wrote:
>
> > My own favorite King novel is “It,” followed by “Misery.” And I’d even
> > throw in the first half of “The Stand”—the Captain Trips part; after that
> > it goes rapidly downhill. But “The Dead Zone” is certainly up there.
> >
> > I agree with most of what you say—film and books are very different, yes;
> > for instance, I *love* “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” *and*
> > “Bladerunner,” despite the latter only being loosely based on the former.
> > (And Cronenberg’s “Crash” is a great adaptation of the novel, despite the
> > differences. Also his “Naked Lunch.”) But in the case of “The Shining,” I
> > think the book is only mediocre, while the film is a masterpiece. I think
> > that Kubrick improved on King in every way, especially by purging the
> > narrative of the silly “Oh no! The inanimate objects are coming to life!”
> > bits. In fact, I think Kubrick always does great justice to his source
> > material—“2001” and “A Clockwork Orange,” for instance. (And despite what
> > Burgess himself prefers, I like Kubrick’s ending better!)
> >
> > In my own striving-to-be-humble-but-really-I’m-a-snob opinion, there are
> a
> > few films that have even bettered the book source material. “The Shining”
> > is my number one example, but I would also put “Jaws” and “The Godfather”
> > up there, and to a lesser extent “Rosemary’s Baby” and “Jackie Brown.”
> Not
> > that any of those books were bad, but the movies were definitely better.
> >
> > —Quail, always up for phenomenological shibari!
> >
> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> > Date: Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:33 PM
> > To: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>, pynchon -l <
> > pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> > On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 9:50 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>> wrote:
> >  (snip)
> > And Jerky, I hear you: “The Dead Zone” is great. I would only rank “The
> > Shining” above it (and maaaaybe “Misery”), but Cronenberg did a bang-up
> > job. After Lynch, Cronenberg is my favorite living director. I also think
> > it’s interesting—Cronenberg hated King’s script for “Dead Zone,” so he
> had
> > it rewritten, then rewrote parts of it himself. And it’s pretty
> well-known
> > that King hated Kubrick’s “The Shining.” I think it’s funny that the two
> > best adaptations, each by a cinematic genius, both were forced to
> partially
> > ignore the author. And if you’ve ever seen King’s own cinematic
> adaptation
> > of “The Shining,” hoo boy.
> >
> > The main difference being that Cronenberg's Dead Zone is exquisitely
> > faithful to the novel (King's best, IMO, and the closest he has ever
> come,
> > or will ever come, to writing the Great American Novel), while Kubrick
> > takes great license with King's work (despite being fastidiously precise
> > when translating certain scenes, such as the Gold Room chat between Jack
> > and the bartender, which is taken word for word from the novel). I guess
> > issues arise when you try to determine what's fair and what's not when
> > comparing a film and its source material, be it novel or play or real
> life
> > event. I know I'm not teaching any of you learned dogs new tricks, but
> > movies are as different from, say, history books, as history books are
> from
> > the reality of the lived events themselves. No sense getting tied up in
> all
> > kinds of unresolvable phenomenological knots about it. Film and
> literature
> > have to work on their own terms, and it has been my experience that the
> > points of intersection between those two seperate arts are surprisingly
> few
> > and far between.
> >
> > Jerky
> >
> > BTW, I hear *Brandon* Cronenberg’s next movie is J.G. Ballard’s
> > “Super-Cannes.”
> >
> > —Quail
> >
> > From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com<mailto:
> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com
> > >>
> > Date: Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:23 PM
> > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> > Cc: Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com<mailto:
> > quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>, P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:
> > pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> > Subject: Re: DeLillo adaptations
> > You guys, man!
> >
> > First of all, we're only one novella away from one of Delillo's very
> best,
> > IMO, that being ZERO K. A novel which, by the way, would make a
> tremendous
> > film for the right director and cast.
> >
> > Secondly, how can anyone mention successful Stephen King adaptations and
> > the films of David Cronenberg in the same email, and forget to mention
> > perhaps the best cinematic translation of King's writing into cinema, The
> > Dead Zone? For SHAME!
> >
> > Jerky
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 1:40 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Interest take, Q (the good Q)
> >
> > I somewhat agree with your argument, especially with the post-Underworld
> > novels. I don't hate it, but I can see how his dialogue may annoy
> others. I
> > can't say Libra or many bits of Underworld have that quality, in fact,
> the
> > historical reproductions of the Bronx in U and Oswald and his ilk in
> Libra
> > are tour-de-forces imho. In fact, Libra is probably my favorite DeLillo.
> > It's also interesting that you like Tarantino since I kinda feel about QT
> > as how you feel about DeLillo. the man's work terribly annoys me and all
> > his imitators, the Raymond Carver of the pictures. ugh
> >
> > Mike White. hmm. it's been hard for me to like since Chuck and Buck. I
> > think he's gotten better however--and his female characters are top
> notch.
> > the White Lotus is quite good. I didnt like the series with Laura Dern
> but
> > the Jennifer Aniston as waitress in a dead town is good, too. White is in
> > it, not sure he directed. I think he did. All that to say, he's not my
> cup
> > of tea but he is talented.
> >
> > I had a strong DeLillo phase and I will read anything he writes (a sadly
> > dwindling number for writers for me), but the best times are past. Maybe
> > that's just what happens. folks get old, etc. I still will claim the best
> > thing about Bleeding Edge was that you wouldnt have known it was written
> by
> > some guy in his 70s. and if it is the last one we see from Mr P I guess
> > that's not a bad way to end things (fingers still crossed of course)
> >
> > yr ob'd sv't
> > rich
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 11:57 AM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com
> > <mailto:quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > To begin with a confession, I kind of hate DeLillo. I know he’s a great
> > > writer, and his sentences are perfect, yes, yes, I get it. I’ve read
> > > several of his books, but abandoned many more. The thing is: I HATE HIS
> > > DIALOGUE. It’s so ridiculously stylized and overly-pretentious for me,
> I
> > > just can’t get into it. Which is weird, I mean I love Shakespeare and
> > > Quentin Tarantino; but there’s something about DeLillo’s characters
> that
> > > make me *hate* them, and that makes me hate the books, which makes me
> > hate
> > > DeLillo’s writing. It’s like Wes Anderson movies: I just want to punch
> > each
> > > and every character, then punch the director.
> > >
> > > Having said that, there has been one solid DeLillo adaptation: David
> > > Cronenberg’s “Cosmopolis.” He adapts the dialogue pretty straight from
> > the
> > > book—which makes me hate it (see above)—but the entire thing is pretty
> > > saturated with satire, and I think does a lot of justice to the source
> > > material. And Robert Pattinson is amazing, as usual.
> > >
> > > I have very little hope that Noah Baumbach is going to make a good
> movie
> > > out of “White Noise,” but at least someone is trying.
> > >
> > > Now, how about a prestige-TV series based on “The Recognitions,”
> written
> > > and directed by Mike White? That I’d fucking watch! Yeah man, I’d watch
> > the
> > > fucking shit out of that.
> > >
> > > —Quail
> > >
> > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org<mailto:
> > pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org>> on behalf of Erik T. Burns <
> > > eburns at gmail.com<mailto:eburns at gmail.com>>
> > > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 4:52 PM
> > > To: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>>
> > > Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org<mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>>
> > > Subject: Re: Pynchon at the Beach
> > > I suppose it would be possible to take White Noise so seriously that
> one
> > > entirely misses the point.
> > >
> > > I hope that doesn't happen, though I had also hoped no one would ever
> > make
> > > movies out of his books. They feel like they might make good movies
> but I
> > > don't think they will, really. Kind of like Stephen King, for that
> matter
> > > (where, aside from a handful of exceptions including The Shining, Stand
> > By
> > > Me and Shawshank Redemption, the cinematic versions inerrantly blow.)
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 9:06 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com<mailto:
> > richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > on an another note: the trailer for Baumbach's take on White Noise
> left
> > > me
> > > > scratching my head--I get it's just a first look but it feels or
> > > suggests a
> > > > Hollywood 80s Godzilla disaster movie. I'm not sure how DeLillo's
> > satire
> > > > translates to film and I consider WN satire. the trailer exudes such
> > > > seriousness which I hope doesn't get all the attention. DD is at his
> > best
> > > > mixing the humorous with the profound--I'd be shocked and
> disappointed
> > if
> > > > the former wasn;t given its due. Don Cheedle as Murray Suskind gives
> me
> > > > some hope
> > > >
> > > > rich
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
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>