Ukraine

Sun Feb 12 11:48:46 UTC 2023

This is amazing, folks....his ideology even blinds him totally from
FACTS.....like the number of dead on each side, seen, acknowledged by
the whole world community......Below is the best conservative number on
Russian deaths, these latter days in their meatgrinder attacks
approaching one thousand a week, up four times from summer......Ukraine
itself, which. unlike Russia and Joseph, tries to be accurate and doesn't
lie,
speaks of less than 20, 000 dead (Joseph's RU number) and Western analysts
say Russian deaths are @8 times more than Ukrainian deaths...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/feb/12/russia-ukraine-war-latest-updates-ukraine-forces-hold-frontline-in-donetsk-kyivs-top-military-commander-says?page=with:block-63e8c1918f08b08d63d5473e#block-63e8c1918f08b08d63d5473e

Joseph to hold onto his sick world view HAS TO GET even the facts wrong.
And Ukraine WILL be victorious in Crimea and the Donbass although they
will lose more lives---tell us how many Joseph as if it is Ukraine's fault
that the Russian imperial invaders kill so many before democracy has to
win.
(Joseph cannot grasp the CONCEPT of democracy, imo, since the one he knows
best is a flawed one he blames the concept itself).....

How many countries of this pendant world have condemned Russia's actions?
All deluded. of course.

Joseph, you are, despite your Nazi-hunting misseeing an intellectual
fascist.

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 9:51 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Your only valid point is that ‘ethnic Russians’ is an oversimplification
> though there are many ethnic Russians and there is a great deal of
> intermarriage and a strong majority who speak Russian which is a  cultural
> statement. The thing is they did not accept the coup as valid and were
> attacked both culturally and militarily after the coup. They also led the
> original fighting with  actual Ukrainian fascists who adorn themselves with
> Nazi insignias and regulalrly heroize Stephan Bandera . The people of the
> Donbass fought and  voted for their current status  and continue to defend
> their choices.
>
> Calling the professional observers of the UN sponsored OCSE “Rascist"
> propagandists is a pretty low level of argument. But that seems to be what
> you are left with.
>
> Then it appears you want us to belive that the people of the Donbass were
> shelling themselves.  Please. Like the Russians blew a hole in their own
> pipeline. Sure.
>
> Saying "I thought they were Russians" is weak also, they were still part
> of Ukraine and remained so  after the Minsk accords, which both sides
> agreed to, but which Eastern Ukraine and Germany saw only as a way to buy
> time to rebuild Ukraines military. Super Scummy.
>
>
> As to your background expertise I  don’t know or trust you, but let others
> decide for themselves. Your proposed concern for the Ukrainian people looks
> completely non-credible to me.I warned early in the course of the conflict
> and its discussion on the list that your ideas, reflecting exactly the US
> and Zelensky positions was going to cost the people of Ukraine  enormously
> and accomplish nothing to return the Donbass or Crimea. After 180-200
> thousand  Ukrainian dead, and total dead and wounded up to 300 thousand+
> Ukrainian casualties, and with the far smaller  20 thousand Russian deaths
> and all military progress having been made by Russia, my asessment stands.
> Feeding Ukrainians into this proxy war is sickening and you still seem to
> support it.
>
> Your step down from argument to insult  is not particulalry persuasive.  “
> conspiracy bullshit, Racist propaganda,  ignorant”
>
> > On Feb 11, 2023, at 9:46 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I really did not want to react to this conspiracy bullshit anymore,
> >
> > On Sat, 11 Feb 2023 at 15:25, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> >> *"On February 16, 2022, a full week before Putin sent combat troops into
> >> Ukraine, the Ukrainian Army began the heavy bombardment of the area *
> >
> >
> > Wrong. This is simply made up. Sources trace back to Rashist propaganda.
> >
> >
> > *(in east Ukraine) occupied by mainly ethnic Russians.*
> >
> >
> > Wrong. You want to catch up with the region's history, also learn
> > understand that in postcolonial societies primary language of
> communication
> > not necessarily corresponds to ethnicity or even self-perceived identity.
> >
> > Mike Whitney (and you, since you share his text) really has no clue about
> > Ukraine. Him being an editor on Eastern Europe does not mean a thing
> here,
> > because Eastern Europe is not exactly small, and traditionally people
> have
> > concentrated on Russia and adapted Russian narratives on other Eastern
> > European countries.
> >
> > His nonsense fits well into some people's (ignorant) beliefs. That's how
> > people start being considered "experts" nowadays. Ouch.
> >
> >
> >
> >> * Officials from the Observer Mission of the Organization for Security
> and
> >> Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) were located in the vicinity at the time
> and
> >> kept a record of the shelling as it took place. What the OSCE discovered
> >> was that the bombardment dramatically intensified as the week went on
> until
> >> it reached a peak on February 19, when a total of 2,026 artillery
> strikes
> >> were recorded. *
> >
> >
> > Yup, there may have been shelling, but not by Ukrainian forces.
> >
> >
> > *Keep in mind, the Ukrainian Army was, in fact, shelling civilian areas
> >> along the Line of Contact that were occupied by other Ukrainians.” *
> >
> >
> > I thought it was Russians living there? Mike seems confused. Doesn't
> > surprise me.
> >
> >
> > * While it might be in vogue for people, organizations, and governments
> in
> >> the West to embrace the knee-jerk conclusion that Russia’s military
> >> intervention constitutes a wanton violation of the United Nations
> Charter
> >> and, as such, constitutes an illegal war of aggression,*
> >
> >
> > It is. What else should this be?
> >
> >
> >> * the uncomfortable truth is that, of all the claims made regarding the
> >> legality of pre-emption under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter,
> >> Russia’s justification for invading Ukraine is on solid legal ground.”
> >> (“Russia, Ukraine & the Law of War: Crime of Aggression
> >> <
> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
> >> <
> https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/29/russia-ukraine-the-law-of-war-crime-of-aggression/
> >>**”,
> >> Consortium News)*
> >>
> >
> > Scott Ritter. This time not for RT but consortiumnews. That changes
> > everything, doesn't it?
> >
> > This whole stuff is just so ridiculous that it should really be ignored.
> >
> > End of transmission.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Martin Dietze
> > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]
> >
> > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
> > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
> > [http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]
> >
> > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
> > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
>
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>