Ukraine

Sun Feb 12 18:11:03 UTC 2023

FYI, I don’t think anyone is actually reading more than the first sentence
or two of your post. I know I’m not.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 12:00 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Sure dude, I actually work directly for the Kremlin like everyone who
> neither trusts the CIA infested media (
> https://consortiumnews.com/2023/02/07/patrick-lawrence-the-press-reckoning-on-russiagate/
> <
> https://consortiumnews.com/2023/02/07/patrick-lawrence-the-press-reckoning-on-russiagate/>
> ), nor a country that has openly shut down opposition media, opposition
> political parties and the Russian orthodox church;  and you are not a
> German ultra defensive reflection of Ukrainian nationalist propaganda. You
> are so knowledgeable because you claim to be, but spout the same things as
> all the liars and fakes who know nothing but what the imperial war machine
> says.. There are many sources on these issues including Ukrainians who I
> have quoted or given links to in past posts with virtually no response.
> Also there are may incidents and videos like the confession of a drunk
> American mercenary leader that the Ukrainian soldiers murder prisoners of
> war , which even he found disgusting, or the video of Ukrainians shooting
> surrendered members of th Russain Armed Forces. Like I say I don’t know
> anything about you and have no reason to trust your claim of superior
> knowledge( which is just a claim with little evidence), and I see no reason
> to think it superior to  known Ukrainians and people who live in the
> Donbass who also publish their ideas with far more historical detail than
> you ever have, despite your claims of such knowledge. Posting Ukrainian
> food recipes in German doesn’t really qualify as evidence of profound
> knowledge of Ukraine.  I can’t read German so am limited as to what  the
> references you posted have to say. The 2nd linked article doesn’t have your
> name anywhere I could find, but it is obvious you were not one of the
> Ukrainians interviewed because their names were listed.
>    As to claims that the Donbass has been forced into submission to
> Russia, take  it to the lovers of US foreign wars on the list. They will
> believe anything the Hillary/Biden party promotes. Are there white
> supremicists in Russia? This racist crap is  everywhere including Germany,
> Sweden, UK, Israel, Canada... whatever . I grew up in the US when people in
> east coast cities  were openly racist and know it first hand and via a
> large body of current an past evidence. For me it is personal because my
> daughter is African American. As to Nazis in Russia, after losing 25
> million people to German aggression geographically channeled through
> Ukraine, and taking the major military role to defeat Hitler I am skeptical
> that this is a popular theme of personal adornment among Russians. But
> speaking of this history and Bandera and aggression it gets real damn
> obvious that Russians have profoundly existential  concerns about this
> proxy war whose main effect has been stealing Russian bank reserves,
> blowing up a  pipeline in an act of war against a nuclear power and killing
> hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians while the Guardian and US papers
> proclaim their imminent victory. The Russians seem to have been more ready
> for this than the US or its Nato lackeys. Fuck the empire and its wars, and
> Fuck the self-glorifying and self-enriching dictator Zelensky.
>
> > On Feb 12, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 12 Feb 2023 at 03:51, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:
> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> > Your only valid point is that ‘ethnic Russians’ is an oversimplification
> >
> > Thank you for appreciating me having a valid point. Seems like you know
> a lot about Ukraine so that you can tell who's right and who's wrong?
> >
> >
> > though there are many ethnic Russians and there is a great deal of
> intermarriage and a strong majority who speak Russian which is a  cultural
> statement.
> >
> > Plain wrong. I mentioned that you want to learn about the region's
> history which you obviously haven't.
> >
> > Regarding the use of the Russian language: the reason for its dominance
> in urban areas (and only there) is different from what you think.
> > And it is not a cultural statement. It is the consequence of certain
> historic developments you are ignorant about.
> >
> >
> > The thing is they did not accept the coup as valid and were attacked
> both culturally and militarily after the coup.
> >
> > Nonsense. There was no coup. The word "coup" is straight from the
> Kremlin's text books, and you see no problem in sharing their narrative
> while believing that you have a more "objective" view than others? Come on.
> >
> > Indeed Eastern Ukraine was attacked militarily - Russian special forces
> entered the country after their job in Crimea had been finished, started
> occupying public buildings and handing out weapons to people who happened
> to be interested. Little later tanks and GRAD rocket launches were seen on
> the streets. That's what I call a military attack.
> >
> > Unlike you who are relying on your "alternative media" (of which a vast
> portion simply took over the Kremlin's narrative) I actually know a good
> number of people from Donetsk and Luhansk who clearly contradict your
> story.
> >
> >
> > They also led the original fighting with  actual Ukrainian fascists who
> adorn themselves with Nazi insignias and regulalrly heroize Stephan Bandera
> . The people of the Donbass fought and  voted for their current status  and
> continue to defend their choices.
> >
> > Plain bullshit. The people of Donbass were never asked. You constantly
> writing about "the people of Donbas" doing this or that shows pretty well
> that (a) you don't have a clue about what the people of Donbass are
> actually like and (b) don't see a problem in adopting the narrative of a
> power that had just annexed one part of the country and has had its
> military in another part since then. With all your conspiracy stuff it
> never occurred to you that they may not have an interest to tell you the
> truth?
> >
> > Whatever happened there in early 2014 was decided in Moscow. The story
> about Ukrainian "fascists" is pretty ridiculous, too, in particular when
> you look at all the Russian volunteer militant units with people recruited
> in motherland Russia. By far the larger number of people with nazi world
> views have been fighting on the Russian side right from the start. Hence
> claiming their fight was "anti fascist" is as ridiculous as it is now when
> Lavrov and co are claimiing to "denazify" Ukraine (and Europe).
> >
> >
> > Calling the professional observers of the UN sponsored OCSE “Rascist"
> propagandists is a pretty low level of argument.
> >
> > Which I am not doing.
> >
> >
> > But that seems to be what you are left with.
> >
> > This coming from you is getting funnier with every word. Somebody who is
> completely ignorant about Ukraine, its history, its demographic, its
> politics, relying vastly on pro-Kremlin sources, not even able to read any
> single first hand source in original must surely be the person to unveil
> "the truth" to others. Ouch.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Martin Dietze
> > [https://www.martins-braindumps.de/ <https://www.martins-braindumps.de/
> >]
> >
> > 1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
> > Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Кул[
> http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/ <
> http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/>]ьтури
> >
> >
> > Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
> > [https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com <
> https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com/>]
>
> --
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>