2014 CNN report from Donetsk

[Martin Dietze]

Quoting myself here. Again. Rather than searching for sources confirming
your existing opinion you may want to get to know the country and its
people.

I may also add that since 2022 support for Moscow in the Donbass region has
fallen to a historic low.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 at 23:37
Subject: Re: GRAYZONE, that black rag: Can't cut & paste
To: Pynchon List <pynchon-l at waste.org>

[...]
Here's a snippet from Tim Snyder's "Twenty Lessons", chapter 17, which
summarises pretty well what happened in Eastern Ukraine in 2014:

The plan, besides Crimea, was to overthrow regional Ukrainian governments
> in 8 regions. The idea here was to use Russian Special Forces to organize,
> provoke, what appeared to be local uprisings against the Ukrainian state.
> This in general did not work. It failed almost everywhere. It was a partial
> succes in 2 Ukrainian districts - Luhansk and Donetsk - and that success
> was achieved in a very particular way.
>
> The Russian Special Forces that were active in that part of Ukraine
> recognized that they were failing. They were about to be defeated by the
> Ukrainian army which - weakened and confused as it was - wasn't having any
> problems with that small number of Russian Special Forces and a small
> number of local volunteers that was supporting them.
>
> So, what the leader of the special forces in the southeast did, a man
> called Girkin, was that he deliberately withdrew to a city in order to draw
> artillery fire to that city. And this was successful in part because
> Russian forces on the other side of the border hideously for weeks rained
> down artillery fire on the Ukrainian army.
>
> So, the artillery exchanges that followed created the impression that the
> Ukrainians were shelling their own people, which of course was the case
> because they ware responding to shelling that was coming to them from the
> other side but that exchange of shelling for shelling created a sense that
> everyone was against everyone which made it possible for the separatists as
> they started to call themselves to recruit from local people.
>

This is where the propaganda narrative about Ukrainians "relentlessly
shelling their own people" originates. And thanks to people believing just
about anything contradicting what they consider the "mainstream", this has
worked rather well. Rather than blaming invading Russian Special Forces for
using "human shield" tacticts, systematically drawing fire on civillians by
operating from residential areas, the vicitms are again made the villians.

What Snyder tells us in that text isn't new to me. Back in 2014 people I
knew in the Ukrainian army told stories about the sheer endless artillery
fire, and Bellingcat were able to prove that it quite a large portion of it
indeed originated from the Russian side. The Russians shelling from
residential areas in Donetsk and Luhansk was by the way been confirmed by
internationional observers.

[...]


-- 
Dr. Martin Dietze
[https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]

1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
[http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]

Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
[https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]

On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 at 06:00, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1640435130362724354?s=20 <
> https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1640435130362724354?s=20>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>


-- 
Dr. Martin Dietze
[https://www.martins-braindumps.de/]

1. Vorsitzender - Deutsch-Ukrainischer Kulturverein e.V.
Голова - Німецько-Українське Товариство Культури
[http://www.deutsch-ukrainischer-kulturverein.de/]

Redakteur / Редактор - Karpaty Lviv Nachrichten
[https://karpaty-lviv-nachrichten.com]