AtD question

Tue Jan 9 15:05:49 UTC 2024

Second this....

On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 8:32 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> WOW!  Great detailed diving and reassembly!
>
> AtD is FULL of mystical junctures (probably too many). I think it’s so
> immersed in play into and out of those alternate dimensions that it runs
> the risk of being a Jambalaya too far!  Very few people will dive into it
> so deep. And it’s always going to then ask the question of its PAYOFF!
> Does it deliver the juice? Or is that fountain always on the other side of
> the next portal?
>
> On Tue, Jan 9, 2024 at 7:50 AM matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Howdy Folks,
> >
> > Belated Happy New year. I'm glad some of you have taken interest in this
> > very strange part of the book. I plan to present on this at the upcoming
> > IPW in Serbia in June.
> >
> > First, let's try to sort things out with time and place. Kit and Dally
> have
> > been star-crossed lovers through much  of the book, coming together only
> to
> > be separated. It is now very close to the end of the book and Kit and
> Dally
> > are in Venice where Kit has taken up dive bomber work with Renzo
> (starting
> > to look a bit like Gabriele D'Annunzio?). Dally doesn't approve and they
> > have an argument. On return from a mission he finds a note: "*I'm going
> to
> > Paris*." (1074) This is when we read that she sees Policarpe. The line
> > about "back in Belgium" is a bit confusing because after he says that the
> > peace is just an illusion, he then says, "For a moment I thought I had
> seen
> > your former husband."  We then read, "In fact he had. Kit had returned to
> > Paris *unexpectedly*, after some time in Lwów." We then get the analepsis
> > that explains: Dally left and Kit kept fighting until, "one day the War
> was
> > over". He meets an algebraist (E. Percy Movay) and goes to the
> "now-defunct
> > Austro-Hungarian Empire" where he meets a circle of mathematicians at the
> > Scottish Cafe. This brings him back into contact with Prof. Vanderjuice.
> > (The Prof. explains that he wanted to kill Vibe, and was rescued by the
> > Chums -  one of the very few times that the two narrative trajectories
> > cross and interact. Normally, the world of the Chums does not intersect
> the
> > Traverse world.)
> > So, Kit is in Lwow/ Lviv. And one day Vanderjuice vanishes. "Kit went
> down
> > to the Glowny Dworzec and got on a train and headed west, though soon he
> > got off and went across the tracks onto another platform and waited for a
> > train going east..." So he is yo-yoing. "He would come to for brief
> > intervals, and then go back inside a regime of starvation and
> hallucination
> > and mental absence." (1080) He apparently goes through the Iron Gates
> > (Belgrade) and later Lake Baikal (Russia). "From this precise spot along
> > the shoreline it was possible to "see" the far shore a city, crystalline,
> > redemptive." (Was this Shambala?) He starts thinking about Dally.
> > "After some weeks of this, he began to be visited by a sort of framed
> > shadow suspended in the empty air, a transparent doorway, approaching him
> > at a speed he knew he would not always be able to avoid." (1080) It is
> not
> > clear exactly where he is.
> > "At last one day, still hesitant, he decided to approach it - might then,
> > in fright, have lost his balance, and seized all at once as if by
> gravity,
> > he toppled into the curiously orthogonal opening, exclaiming "What's
> this,"
> > as to the astonishment of onlookers he was turned to shimmering
> > transparency, dwindling into a sort of graceful cone and swept through
> its
> > point into what appeared to be a tiny or perhaps only distant window of
> > bright plasma. Kit, on the other hand,had remained the same size...."
> > So there are on-lookers and they perceive events one way and Kit
> perceives
> > them quite differently. This is exactly what Einstein first theorized,
> and
> > now has become our understanding of what happens as one enters a black
> > hole.
> > And then he is in Paris in a hotel room of Lord Overlunch. Lord O. is in
> > town for a crying of stamps; he explains that Kit was in Shambala,
> > apparently on a stamp. Kit says he wasn't to which Lord O. responds
> "Well,
> > well. A twin perhaps." When Kit inquires as to how he arrived, Lord O.
> > simply says, "It's the way people reappear these days." So it is far from
> > clear what has caused Kit to cross space/time to be in Paris. In fact it
> is
> > no more clear than how Slothrop starts to dissipate and disappear.
> > Moreover, I place this ending beside GR's in terms of baffling authorial
> > practice; in comparison the antagonists of other Pynchon novels have
> rather
> > comprehensible exits from the narrative scene as the curtain comes down.
> > (The section has a number of elements that tie it to other Pynchon
> novels,
> > which is clearly on purpose.)
> >
> > Pynchon could have put Kit on a train back to Paris to be reunited with
> > Dally, but that would be lazy and almost as unoriginal as riding off into
> > the sunset. I argue that his solution draws on two things that
> thematically
> > run through the book (science and religion) but that the sources come
> from
> > outside the book as well. However, I'll wait until after the conference
> to
> > share all that. I will say this: the cone is very important.
> >
> > Oh, and if our amazing translator Mike Jing is reading, I will add that I
> > just came across a use of that concept in the second book of the
> > "Three-body Problem" trilogy (The Dark Forest). In one scene (p218-9) a
> > scientist explains the concept of a light cone and says, "It's impossible
> > for people outside the cone to comprehend events taking place inside the
> > cone" To this the other character responds, "Fate lies within the light
> > cone." If TP read that line, I'm sure he thought it brilliant.
> >
> > ciao
> > mc otis
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 5:16 AM Michael Bailey <
> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > So, way late in the book, and *after* Kit and Dally separated -
> > >
> > > Thank you Mike, and everyone on the thread (Matthew for originating)
> > >
> > > It’s actually a really cool section and I’d forgotten about it, or
> maybe
> > > didn’t really read it attentively at all before.
> > >
> > > Kit meets up in Lwów with - ah, spoiler alert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Professor Vanderjuice & they talk about the Zermelo Axiom & in fact
> it’s
> > so
> > > good I think tomorrow, I’ll start a “reference chasing thread” for
> those
> > > few pages
> > >
> > > (Takin’ a break from Flange for a minute)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 12:23 AM Mike Jing <
> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I went back and reread Part Four and Part Five. It turns out that
> some
> > > > sort of “teletransportation” did happen to Kit, although not from the
> > Far
> > > > East back to Paris, but from Lwów, Poland. He somehow ended up in the
> > > hotel
> > > > room of Lord Overlunch, a stamp collector, who told him he was on a
> > > > Shambhala postage stamp. This happened in Part Five (p1080-1081),
> after
> > > Kit
> > > > and Dally separated, and hinted at some kind of reunion.
> > > >
> > > > Before that, after leaving Fleetwood without saying goodbye, Kit
> > somehow
> > > > trekked to Constantinople:
> > > >
> > > > “Kit as a matter of fact was already on the run. He had been living
> in
> > > > Constantinople, tending bar at the Hôtel des Deux Continents, off the
> > > > Grande Rue over on the European or honkytonk side of the Golden Horn
> in
> > > > Pera, long enough almost to’ve come to believe his life had found its
> > > > equilibrium at last. Folks out here talked about fate, but for Kit it
> > > was a
> > > > matter of stillness.
> > > >
> > > > It had taken him a while, from Kazakh Upland to Kirghiz Steppe to
> > Caspian
> > > > Depression, short hops in little steamers along the Anatolian coast,
> > the
> > > > invisible City ahead of him gripping him ever more surely in its
> field,
> > > as
> > > > he felt the weight of reverence, of history, the nervous bright edge
> of
> > > > revolution, around the final cape and into the Bosphorus, the palaces
> > and
> > > > small harbors and mosques and ship traffic, beneath the Galata Tower,
> > > > docking at last at Eminönü.”
> > > >
> > > > Until he helped an enemy of the C.U.P. and had to leave for
> Buda-Pesth
> > in
> > > > a hurry. (p911-912)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 5:05 AM Michael Bailey <
> > > > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Let’s see, I never did connect Kit’s travels very well:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Kit and Yashmeen scarper from Göttingen together on an ostensible
> > > mission
> > > >> to the Far East for the T.W.I.T.S…
> > > >>
> > > >> Meet up with Reef in a sanatorium in Switzerland
> > > >>
> > > >> Kit takes off with Reef to try to kill Vibe in Italy
> > > >>
> > > >> Yashmeen is called back to London
> > > >>
> > > >> Kit & Reef fail to kill Vibe; Kit continues on eastward to Trieste,
> > > >> carrying a letter from Yashmeen to her
> > > >> father (who’s in the East)
> > > >>
> > > >> On to Bucharest, Baku, then there’s some riding on the Trans-Caspian
> > > >> railway … to Kashgar (as of 2023
> > > >> it’s in western China)
> > > >>
> > > >> Yashmeen’s father, Auberon Halfcourt, is living a diplomat/spy’s
> life
> > &
> > > >> facing off frequently with his Russian counterpart, Colonel
> Prokladka
> > > >>
> > > >> Halfcourt sends Kit to Siberia in the company of Lieutenant
> > Prance…He’s
> > > >> overawed by Lake Baikal…
> > > >>
> > > >> To Irkutsk, where they get a bunch of counterfeit coins from a
> British
> > > >> agent named Poundstock, to take & circulate in the Tunguska region
> > > >>
> > > >> After the Tunguska event they go to Tuva & hear the
> > throat-singers…they
> > > >> sort of discern that the T.W.I.T.S no longer care what they do…they
> > > >> separate
> > > >>
> > > >> Prance meets & flies off with the Chums
> > > >>
> > > >> Kit takes up with a band of woodchoppers
> > > >>
> > > >> Sees Fleetwood Vibe, catches up with family news, then they spend an
> > > >> uneasy
> > > >> night dreaming of killing each other
> > > >>
> > > >> After which - “[Fleetwood] looked over, through the wind-beaten
> > > confusion,
> > > >> at where Kit’s bedroll should have been. But Kit had left sometime
> in
> > > the
> > > >> night, as if taken by the wind.”
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Next time we see Kit, he’s on a Wagons-Lits train east of Budapest,
> > > >> heading
> > > >> for Paris - & at a brief stop in Szeged, sees Dally on the Orient
> > > Express
> > > >> going the other way, about to be abducted…
> > > >>
> > > >> He saves her from her would-be captors and they become lovers.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> So yes, there’s a gap. Whether it’s teleportation that brings Kit
> back
> > > >> from
> > > >> Asia into Europe and onto the train, one cannot say for certain -
> nor
> > > that
> > > >> it isn’t.
> > > >>
> > > >> It’s like he goes further & further into the parts of the world less
> > > >> familiar (to Westerners) and then - like in Pac-Man - goes off the
> > edge
> > > of
> > > >> the board and comes back in on the other side.
> > > >>
> > > >> Or - to use the yoyo metaphor from _V._ - he does some elaborate
> > > tricking
> > > >> in Asia, walking the dog etc, and then at just the right moment, the
> > > >> attraction of Dally pulls him rapidly into a pericheir.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 3:37 AM Mike Jing <
> > > gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > I haven't touched AtD for a while and may have forgotten, but I
> > don't
> > > >> > remember such a "teletransportation" taking place anywhere in the
> > > book.
> > > >> As
> > > >> > far as I can tell, Kit met Dally by chance on his way back from
> the
> > > Far
> > > >> > East, and they went back to Italy together and got married. But
> they
> > > >> > eventually separated and Dally went to live in Paris, while Kit
> > > >> remained in
> > > >> > Italy.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 4:44 AM matthew cissell <
> mccissell at gmail.com
> > >
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Howdy folks,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Maybe y'all can help me with something. I'm pretty behind on
> > recent
> > > >> > Pynchon
> > > >> > > critical writing and I'm trying to find out if anything has been
> > > >> written
> > > >> > on
> > > >> > > a certain subject. My problem is that I'm not finding much but I
> > > >> suspect
> > > >> > I
> > > >> > > may not be getting good search results. (I've checked Orbit but
> > came
> > > >> > across
> > > >> > > nothing relevant.)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > My question is: does anyone know of any articles or essays that
> > deal
> > > >> with
> > > >> > > Kit's "teletransportation" from the Far East back to Paris at
> the
> > > end
> > > >> of
> > > >> > > the AtD? It strikes me that heaps has been written about
> Slothrop
> > as
> > > >> he
> > > >> > > fades from (into?) the narrative of GR and yet little attention
> > > >> appears
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > > have been given to Kit's rather perplexing instant transport
> > through
> > > >> > > space-time.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > ciao
> > > >> > > mc otis
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >> >
> > > >> --
> > > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>