Not P but Moby-Dick (62)

Ian Livingston igrlivingston at gmail.com
Tue Jan 30 13:49:02 UTC 2024 

(drily) "Oh, what a shame," even Leviathan is shamed with cowardice by our
skill, courage, and technology.

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 2:04 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there any hook that can draw--make him come out of the deep---and get
> hooked?
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 4:29 AM Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I do understand the context here. It's the exact meaning of that
> > exclamation I'm having trouble with.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 11:17 PM Michael Bailey <
> > michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Pretty sure that “canst thou draw out Leviathan with an hook?” is from
> > the
> > > Book of Job in the Old Testament of the Bible.
> > >
> > >
> > > Job 41:
> > >
> > > “
> > >
> > > Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
> > >     or tie down its tongue with a rope?
> > > 2 Can you put a cord through its nose
> > >     or pierce its jaw with a hook?
> > > 3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
> > >     Will it speak to you with gentle words?
> > > 4 Will it make an agreement with you
> > >     for you to take it as your slave for life?
> > > 5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
> > >     or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
> > > 6 Will traders barter for it?
> > >     Will they divide it up among the merchants?
> > > 7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
> > >     or its head with fishing spears?
> > > 8 If you lay a hand on it,
> > >     you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
> > > 9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
> > >     the mere sight of it is overpowering.
> > > 10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
> > >     Who then is able to stand against me?
> > > 11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
> > >     Everything under heaven belongs to me.
> > >
> > > 12
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Book of Job is (imho) kinda grim.
> > >
> > > The Devil makes a bet with God to mess with Job so God kills off his
> > family
> > > -
> > >
> > > Cutting to the chase -
> > > Job waxes wroth with God, and God finally answers him, like “who are
> you
> > to
> > > question me”
> > >
> > > God goes on about the mighty Leviathan (huge sea-dwelling monster) &
> how
> > > powerless people are against it - the lesson being that God is even
> more
> > > so.
> > >
> > > It’s quite ironic that these mariners are doing what God is quoted as
> > > saying is not doable.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I’m on the right track here.
> > > Many gems of Scriptural references stud _Moby-Dick_  & this one I think
> > > needs explicit context to make it understandable in a translation
> > >
> > > Unlike some Biblical quotes which are more or less “wisdom of the ages”
> > > this one is unique in dwelling on a huge sea-monster
> > >
> > > It even goes on further to say -
> > >
> > > 12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
> > >     its strength and its graceful form.
> > > 13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
> > >     Who can penetrate its double coat of armor[b
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2041&version=NIV#fen-NIV-13902b
> > > >
> > > ]?
> > > 14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
> > >     ringed about with fearsome teeth?
> > > 15 Its back has[c
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2041&version=NIV#fen-NIV-13904c
> > > >
> > > ] rows of shields
> > >     tightly sealed together;
> > > 16 each is so close to the next
> > >     that no air can pass between.
> > > 17 They are joined fast to one another;
> > >     they cling together and cannot be parted.
> > > 18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
> > >     its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
> > > 19 Flames stream from its mouth;
> > >     sparks of fire shoot out.
> > > 20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
> > >     as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
> > > 21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
> > >     and flames dart from its mouth.
> > > 22 Strength resides in its neck;
> > >     dismay goes before it.
> > > 23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
> > >     they are firm and immovable.
> > > 24 Its chest is hard as rock,
> > >     hard as a lower millstone.
> > > 25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
> > >     they retreat before its thrashing.
> > > 26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
> > >     nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
> > > 27 Iron it treats like straw
> > >     and bronze like rotten wood.
> > > 28 Arrows do not make it flee;
> > >     slingstones are like chaff to it.
> > > 29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
> > >     it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
> > > 30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
> > >     leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
> > > 31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
> > >     and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
> > > 32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
> > >     one would think the deep had white hair.
> > > 33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
> > >     a creature without fear.
> > > 34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
> > >     it is king over all that are proud.”
> > >
> > >
> > > Then Job humbles himself -
> > >
> > > “
> > >
> > > 42 Then Job replied to the Lord:
> > >
> > > 2 “I know that you can do all things;
> > >     no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
> > > 3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
> > >     Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
> > >     things too wonderful for me to know.
> > >
> > > 4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
> > >     I will question you,
> > >     and you shall answer me.’
> > > 5 My ears had heard of you
> > >     but now my eyes have seen you.
> > > 6 Therefore I despise myself
> > >     and repent in dust and ashes.”
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 9:15 PM Mike Jing <
> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > From Chapter 81:
> > > >
> > > > Is this the creature of whom it was once so triumphantly said—“Canst
> > thou
> > > > fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish-spears? The
> > sword
> > > of
> > > > him that layeth at him cannot hold, the spear, the dart, nor the
> > > habergeon:
> > > > he esteemeth iron as straw; the arrow cannot make him flee; darts are
> > > > counted as stubble; he laugheth at the shaking of a spear!” This the
> > > > creature? this he? Oh! that unfulfilments should follow the prophets.
> > For
> > > > with the strength of a thousand thighs in his tail, Leviathan had run
> > his
> > > > head under the mountains of the sea, to hide him from the Pequod’s
> > > > fish-spears!
> > > >
> > > > What exactly does "Oh! that unfulfilments should follow the
> prophets."
> > > mean
> > > > here? What would be a more explicit paraphrase?
> > > > --
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> > > >
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