CoL49 - Zachary All suit

[Joseph Tracy]

Why? Because he attempts and achieves a persuasively  supported argument. You might try it some time. It is one of the reasons we have language. The fact that you seem to prefer repeating yourself in short sentences, and respond to differing ideas with insults is not for me the best thing about the list. 

> On Jul 7, 2024, at 7:27 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Why the reverence for an old P-list dude of no particular relevance than some tired old paper he wrote ages ago about this “subversive twist” on the JFK assassination conspiracy's?  Who TF cares?  And at least Mark doesn’t serve us a 500 word rambling (BUT IMPORTANT!) response, which I suspect nobody else (definitely NOT EVER me) is ever going to read?
> 
> Does anyone read JOEYT’s p-list glossolalia?
> 
> David Morris 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 4:52 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> James got the exact quote which is more nuanced, as he admitted, than his
>> quick sum-up
>> and I would not describe that as having it both ways.....I would just
>> describe it as fan-like
>> lit criticism that goes way beyond the text as written......a gloss as it
>> were that is glossolalia.
>> so to speak...
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 2:38 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> >  I am not sure any weaknesses in Hollander’s approach can be summarized as
>> > “trying to have it both ways”. His arguments, with whatever problems they
>> > may have, are clearly stated. In this case the hiding has to do with his
>> > argument, reasonably persuasive, that Pynchon was quite nervous about a
>> > direct approach to making the Kennedy assassination and power struggle with
>> > the CIA and cold- warriors central and obvious , as say the parallel to
>> > 1984 in Vineland or the various theories around 9-11 in Bleeding Edge.
>> > Because of this apprehension about becoming a political target  Hollander
>> > argues Pynchon hid the core historical parallel, but used multiple
>> > allusions and names to point the careful reader to that core theme. My own
>> > problem with Hollander’s arguments has to do with how heavily it relies on
>> > a presumed outrage over the dispossession of the Pynchon family by the
>> > Rockefellers and  an implied energy investment and Bank war between war
>> > between the Rothschild’s and Rockefeller, then resumed in the Rockefellerr
>> > connected Dulles allied with Angleton.  Maybe. Not impossible. Others have
>> > mentioned this family history,  but it implies a personal motive that is
>> > tenuous and unprovable and only remotely relevant or explanatory IMO.
>> >    On the other hand The essay bristles with telling connections between
>> > fascists and Nazi loot and Dulles, Angleton and others that has much
>> > stronger references in the text. It  is a tour de force of interesting
>> > historic references drawn from serious research, and all drawn from the
>> > names and events in the COL 49. Whether any reader would go to such lengths
>> > to get at these references the way Hollander does seems unlikely. But I can
>> > say honestly that referring to the text and names before reading his essay,
>> > I also made several of these connections and a few of my own and derived
>> > the same basic theme.
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Jul 5, 2024, at 4:37 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > "to hide and confirm at the same time (not a great paraphrase)."...I'll
>> > > say....having it both ways is a cliche comment.....having it both ways is
>> > > usually not good criticism.....one can't be wrong therefore can't be
>> > > right....
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 4:32 PM J K Van Nort via Pynchon-l <
>> > > pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:pynchon-l at waste.org>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Another example of Pynchon minor details that lead down rabbit holes but
>> > >> also have links to previous moments. Charles Hollander says that Pynchon
>> > >> uses multiple allusions and proper names to hide and confirm at the same
>> > >> time (not a great paraphrase).
>> > >>
>> > >> The founder of IA choses a Zachary All suit, which would have come from
>> > >> the Zachary All Clothing store on Wilshire Blvd. The founder of the
>> > store,
>> > >> Edward Nalbandian, an Armenian-American (like Fallopian) made
>> > commercials
>> > >> on local Los Angeles stations, one of which inspired Frank Zappa's song
>> > >> "Eddie, are you kidding?".
>> > >>
>> > >> Relevance? I'm not sure, but the idea that Pynchon mixes allusions
>> > across
>> > >> the book to point and verify is an interesting concept, and one that we
>> > see
>> > >> often in CoL49.
>> > >>
>> > >> In solidarity,
>> > >> James
>> > >>
>> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> > >> --
>> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >>
>> > > --
>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l