CoL49 - Arrabal

[Mark Kohut]

The novella was conceived and written in 64-65.....Yes, the CIA is a joke
in the text; tell you anything? Does me.

I can riff on how the novella is about Psychiatry and is Hilarious....



On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 1:44 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> Arrabal
> Mark:
> The CIA is in the text. And since there is no actual historic Mexican
> anarchist CIA and since the CIA itself was active in Mexico against
> leftists I think its use is not without suggestive intent.  Angleton has
> the same first name as Arrabal, and a similar last name to duke Angelo.  If
> the reader has begun to suspect that the novel is not about curious CA
> housewives and a rich man’s stamp collection, and has thought about the
> political murder story of the Courier’s revenge, and has picked up on the
> references to Dulles, Dallas, Mafia, WW2 profiteering,  the beginning of an
> anti-war movement in 1966, right wing movements , and rampant corporatized
> militarization, well it does not seem like such a stretch to feel the CIA
> reference used as a joke has serious undertones.
>
> James
> As to the exact moment when OM decides to leave PI, I’m just doing my best
> to get the implications of the beach story. Decisions usually build up over
> time  and there are other hints about this decision, but this appears to be
> close to her leaving and obviously contributes to that decision. As to the
> exact wording of how Arrabal’s parting words are to be interpreted I am not
> trying to imply more than what is said, I agree that, as in many Pynchon
> lines , there is ambiguity; but there is also basic intent and specific
> word choices. I probably should have said she leaves carrying Arrabal’s
> thought that there maybe a higher level  guiding him and  this night could
> confirm such a possibility for her.  I was trying to summarize the
> implications of the parting feeling more than make a definitive statement.
> We know OM is deeply conflicted over how to make sense of this night and
> keeps looking for a satisfactory explanation.
>
> COL 49
> P-list
> I am not claiming a definitive interpretation of COL 49 or Thomas
> Pynchon.  That is a presumptuousness I do not embrace.  I have set out my
> intent to follow both the human story and a more allegorical (for want of a
> better word) layer implying the impact on the american psyche  of the JFK
> assassination and the suppression of research and evidence-gathering around
> that event. This intent on my part  formed in the weeks leading up to the
> start of the group read by reading and listening to the novella several
> times and feeling there is an empty space at the middle of this work set in
> 1966, 3 years after JFK’s murder and yet with no direct  reference to that
> event despite other political and cultural time signatures. I have read all
> of Pynchon’s work multiple times and part of my picture of COL 49 has come
> from patterns I have observed from V to Bleeding Edge. I believe my methods
> and interpretation falls well within the bounds of well reasoned essays and
> literary criticism of Pynchon and like any good writing about this writer
> whose  scope is so large, I try to narrow the focus to a manageable level
> and the layer that speaks to me..
>
> I have known from the start that my ideas and possibly even my
> participation would be rejected by Mark and David who often make clear that
> they reject the socio-political spin I find in P’s writing. I believe this
> limitation puts them in a small minority of Pynchon readers,  a large
> number of whom I have engaged with in several other reading groups with
> whom there is much shared understanding with myself. And while I do not
> read P crit extensively, there was a time in past decades when I read more
> of that,  and found  political interpretations are not uncommon from astute
> academic writers. I welcome reasoned criticism and find value from the give
> and take of that process that is part of group  book read. I work at being
> respectful in those exchanges even when not treated that way myself.
>
> Right now I am a bit disappointed that there has been no discussion of the
> failings of this novel, since Pynchon himself criticizes it in Slow
> Learner’s intro. It seems a bit weird not to consider this. I suspect that
> the biggest reason is that I am the only one to suggest it. Oh well.
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 12, 2024, at 9:21 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I like this and I may be wrong, as James stated....but I do remember an
> > early letter of TRP's
> > which said something like my allusions are clear on the page. I don't
> > overpack them.
> > CIA Angleton, per Joseph, is nowhere in this Arrabal allusion I still
> > say....and so much that that drags in.
> > Which would, I maintain, change the whole meaning of the text which is
> what
> > I meant.
> >
> > And, again I argue, yes, his fiction is full of allusion but most of it
> IS
> > RIGHT THERE in the context of the story.
> > Look at Rapunzel here in LOt 49......all the variations of the original
> > story do not seem to matter as does the basic myth--
> > let down your hair and escape that tower...(by the way, speaking of
> letting
> > down one's hair, I now think of Solange
> > again and her "Change your hair; change your life"....ask a group of
> smart
> > women of an age about that line AND off to the
> > felt races.....I brought it up in my Phlip Roth class when, in a late
> Roth,
> > INDIGNATION, Roth spends words on a woman who does that...
> > who has been bisexual........the identification with hair styles and
> change
> > was all over the class........
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 6:08 AM J K Van Nort via Pynchon-l <
> > pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Joseph's research is interesting at least. How much of this Pynchon
> >> explored and implied is debatable, but much of it agrees with his
> oeuvre's
> >> attitude about anarchism and revolution/resistance.
> >> I don't agree with Mark when he says:"I don't think TRP put all of that
> >> into his Arrabal...it kills the story; it adds meaning that distorts the
> >> story. It buries his narrational meanings...."
> >>
> >> How does it "kill the story"? It is a moment that takes up 2 pages,
> which
> >> makes a connection with Pierce and provides us with Arrabal's view of
> him.
> >> We get some history/snippets of Mexican anarchism and a strange resolve
> >> from Arrabal: "I'm just a foot soldier. The higher levels have their
> >> reasons." Anarchism opposes hierarchy, so who would be the higher ups?
> >> Where is the distortion? There are many rabbit holes in Pynchon that
> lead
> >> nowhere or to information that doesn't contribute to some
> interpretations,
> >> but that is a characteristic of Pynchon's writing. It's hard to imagine
> >> that Pynchon randomly chose Jesus or Arrabal. Investigating possible
> links
> >> is part of reading Pynchon. Should we not investigate Gould because it
> >> would distort the narration Mark? Forrester? Dulles? McCarthy?
> >> What are these narrational meanings being buried? I'm curious, because I
> >> don't see that at all.
> >> I also disagree with Joseph when he says:"For Oedipa this is when she
> >> leaves Pierce and later realizes that Jesus had seen and characterized
> the
> >> basic nature of PI that she, until then, had not clearly seen."
> >>
> >> I can't make that inference that this beach discussion with Jesus
> >> enlightens her about Pierce. It may be a link in the chain, but it is
> not
> >> the "moment". For me this brings Pierce's Gould-like capitalism into
> >> glaring clarity for Jesus, which affects her perception as well.
> >> "She leaves feeling there may be a higher level guiding her quest."
> >> The text is deliberately ambiguous here. "She carries this thought back
> >> out into the night with her." It's there; it may be germinating, but she
> >> expresses no specific feeling of being guided by it. There are points
> where
> >> she feels guided by something, by a higher force, but she doesn't
> >> specifically relate them to this discussion.
> >> In solidarity,James
> >>
> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
>
>
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