STetc Bruno mentioned / Daphne mentioned // ch 37

Tue Apr 28 10:57:48 UTC 2026

1. The Seed: Early 1900s

While "tomato" was used sporadically in the late 1800s to describe anything
attractive or desirable, it didn't firmly root itself as a descriptor for
women until the *1920s*.

During the *Flapper Era*, slang was exploding. Men needed a word that
conveyed freshness, vibrancy, and "juiciness." The tomato—red, ripe, and
visually appealing—fit the bill. Unlike "lemon" (which meant a
disappointment or a dud), a "tomato" was the prize.
2. Full Bloom: The 1930s and 40s

This was the "golden age" of the tomato. It became a staple of *Noir films*,
 *pulp fiction*, and *hardboiled detective novels*.

   -

   *The Vibe:* It wasn't just about being pretty; it often implied a
   certain toughness or "street-smart" quality. A detective might walk into a
   diner and see a "real choice tomato" behind the counter.
   -

   *Pop Culture:* You’ll hear it peppered throughout films starring James
   Cagney or Humphrey Bogart. It sat comfortably alongside other food-based or
   object-based slang like "dish," "doll," and "broad."

------------------------------
3. The Wilt: The 1950s

By the post-war era, "tomato" started to lose its juice. Slang moves fast,
and what sounded "tough" in 1935 sounded like "grandpa talk" by 1955.

   -

   *Overuse:* The word became a caricature of itself. It moved from genuine
   slang to a trope used by writers who were trying too hard to sound "urban."
   -

   *The Competition:* Newer, more aggressive or "hip" terms began to take
   over. The cool crowd was moving toward "chick" or "babe," leaving "tomato"
   in the bargain bin of linguistic history.

4. The Fall: 1960s to Present

By the time the counter-culture movement of the 1960s arrived, "tomato" was
effectively dead.

   -

   *The Gender Shift:* As the feminist movement gained momentum,
   objectifying women by comparing them to produce became increasingly
   cringe-inducing.
   -

   *The "Old Man" Factor:* If you used the word "tomato" in 1970, you were
   likely a middle-aged man in a fedora who hadn't updated his vocabulary
   since the Truman administration.

------------------------------
Why did it die?

Language usually evolves toward efficiency or higher shock value. "Tomato"
is a soft, three-syllable word that feels almost quaint today. It lacks the
punch of modern slang and carries a "Brooklyn shipyard" energy that doesn't
translate to the digital age.

Today, if you call someone a tomato, they’re more likely to think you’re
commenting on their *sunburn* than their physical attractiveness.

*Fun Fact:* There was also a brief period where "hot tomato" referred
specifically to a woman with a fiery temper, but even that has been
eclipsed by the more modern "spitfire" or, well, much less polite terms.

On Tue, Apr 28, 2026 at 6:52 AM Michael Bailey via Pynchon-l <
pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:

> They're mentioned a lot!  Good times coming!
> https://youtu.be/PbUE6NqBriw?si=nTcEEvDSRN-5f8tZ
>
>
> A word about links:
>
> Dropbox links apparently now get the full privacy mega-link treatment on
> the list, so no point in keeping a page o' links anymore.
>
> I guess link-chunks break up the text nicely, and also, knowing that every
> link will appear as a whole underlined paragraph may restrain one's
> tendency to post a lot of links (ambivalent about that prospect) --- It's
> not really that hard to scroll past them, or click on them; online safety
> is always a good idea.
>
> & that's all I have to say about that.
>
>
> Nice pic of the interior of the Fiume torpedo factory, and article:
>
> https://www.georgandagathe.org/history--whitehead-torpedo.html
>
>
> Ch 37, section 1:
>
>
>   *
> P278: "submarine sailors, if that's what they are" - / online search
> reveals the US Navy calls them submariners or sailors; slang parlance
> includes bubbleheads, tube dudes, sundodgers... Austro-Hungarian:
> U-Boot-Fahrer, or U-Bootsleute...
>
>   *
> But Stuffy and the narrator call him the Skipper (a possible reference to
> Gilligan's Island?)
>
>   *
> "a few homegrown tomatoes" this is so far the 3rd instance of that slang
> term, iirc
>
>   *
> Ernst Hauffnitz is smoking a Latakia blend, Syrian tobacco fire-cured for
> months with herbal and wood smoke
>
>
>   *
>  Hauffnitz very politely apologizes to Hicks for the interference he's
> about to inflict on Hicks by taking Bruno
>
>   *
> (Must admit, wondering as to why this would impede Hicks, whose ticket is
> for Daphne?)
>
>   *
> P279: Hauffnitz is extremely forthcoming! "You might consider us an
> encapsulated volume of pre-Fascist space-time, forever on the move, a patch
> of Fiume as it once was, immune to time, surviving all these years in the
> deep refuge of the sea."
>
>   *
> Like von Trapp, Hauffnitz came in for a somewhat redeeming "2nd act" in
> life (although earlier than in von Trapp's case)
>   *
> "Doubts began for the Skipper early in the War, when Max Valentiner
> torpedoed and sank SS Persia in the Mediterranean, killing 343 civilians in
> direct violation of Chancellery orders to spare passengers and rescue
> survivors."
>
>   *
> Survivor testimony
> https://sites.google.com/site/thesinkingofthesspersia/testimony
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>