Possible Interpretation of the title Vineland

[J Tracy]

> but why did he later say what he did?
> I do think she---was it Paola?---was not underage literally....??
> 
Hey Mark why don't you look it up before commenting. What you “think” is irrelevant and often wrong. You want others to answer your?? Do your own research.

> On Feb 1, 2026, at 1:08 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I love this counterpost, so to speak, to too-easy fanboys--like me....
> 
> My history with this in the readings goes like this,.....I stopped out of a
> solid reading of V in my youth
> because of that scene in V. which Laura speaks of ......for me, and
> everyone's mileage may vary, I later
> came to see it as a scene Pynchon was not identifying with or wanted us to
> but why did he later say what he did?
> I do think she---was it Paola?---was not underage literally....??
> 
> AND same with Bianca in GR, to me none of that stuff and her could be seen
> as anything but bad shit.....and written to show that...
> 
> On Sun, Feb 1, 2026 at 11:52 AM Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Pynchon has some disturbing misogynistic tropes in his work. The first,
>> obviously is sex with the underaged - Lucille (?) in V, Bianca in GR. He
>> seems to have finally understood that this isn't cool in his later books
>> (unless I've missed anything). Then, the idea of women going weak in the
>> knees over men in uniform or cops or law enforcement men in general -
>> Frenesi, Maxine. As Mark mentions, the title of Plath's poem, dumbly taken
>> literally, probably encourages Pynchon and others in this trope. Third,
>> worst in some ways, is Woman as Betrayer of movements, of political
>> ideologies. I'm sure there may be some historical examples, particularly in
>> histories written by men, but offhand, I can't think of one. Certainly not
>> on the level of, say, the embedded stooges of COINTELPRO or the Pinkertons.
>> And in terms of family betrayal, it's usually the dad who walks out, the
>> son who betrays the father, at least in real life. So why Frenesi, why
>> Lake?
>> 
>> As a side note, I found PTA's casual adaptation of two of these
>> misogynistic tropes particularly vile. A beautiful young Black woman has
>> sex with the repulsively old and ugly Sean Penn character because ... why?
>> She's already ratted out her friends. So obsessed with a decrepit old
>> fascist that she just can't help herself. Blecch!
>>