Line in Vineland on "Unspeakable"

[Mark Kohut]

No. But all undertones might work in Pynchon but this is too literal and
not meaningful enough for Pynchon imo.

Check all the older and psychological means of Pynchon but you think you’ve
got it so go with it.




On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 9:04 AM mack devon <mackdevon74 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I appreciate both responses, but I'm more searching for the literal event
> within this page of Vineland. With these variations of the word Unspeakable
> that Mark has shared (Inexpressible, Wicked, Return of the Repressed) and
> Hubshrauber's "Usually, the Unspeakable is below the surface," the context
> of unrequited love (or lust) between Takeshi and DL by this point, the
> reference to Love Boat, and the rising, then sinking at unfulfillment...I'm
> still leaning towards believing this is a schoolboy style joke about an
> erection written just a little bit more eloquently than usual. I'm just
> wondering if this is your takeaway from this event within the book, not
> necessarily just the dissection of Pynchon and the word Unspeakable.
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 8:27 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The phrase *"The Unspeakable"* in English carries a fascinating duality:
>> it refers to both the *divine* (that which is too glorious for words)
>> and the *diabolical* (that which is too horrific to name). Its history
>> reflects a shift from religious awe to psychological horror and the modern
>> "uncanny."
>> 1. Etymological Origin and History
>>
>> The word *unspeakable* emerged in Middle English around *1400*. Its
>> meaning has evolved through two primary lenses:
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    *The Ineffable (c. 1400):* Originally, it meant "inexpressible" or
>>    "too great for words." This was often used in a religious context to
>>    describe the glory of God or the "Unspeakable Being."
>>    -
>>
>>    *The Wicked (Mid-15th Century):* By the mid-1400s, the meaning
>>    shifted toward "indescribably bad or wicked." It became a way to categorize
>>    crimes or entities so heinous that naming them would be a secondary
>>    violation of morality.
>>
>>
>>    For Freud, the Unspeakable was the content in his concept of The
>>    Uncanny. Simplified, The Unspeakable is the 'return of the repressed' --a
>>    phrase P uses somewhere, I believe, or at least a concept he uses fer sure..
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 8:03 AM Hübschräuber via Pynchon-l <
>> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Usually, the Unspeakable is below the surface...
>>>
>>> The title of Thomas Merton's collection of essay "Raids on the
>>> Unspeakable" (1966) comes to mind, which was inspired by T.S. Eliot's
>>> description of poetry in "East Coker" as a "raid on the inarticulate".
>>>
>>> https://merton.org/ITMS/Seasonal/36/36-4Labrie.pdf
>>>
>>> I only know Merton through Jim Douglass' "JFK and the Unspeakable"
>>> (2008).
>>>
>>> Douglass writes:
>>>
>>> -- "The Unspeakable" is a term Thomas Merton coined at the heart of the
>>> sixties after JFK’s assassination—in the
>>> midst of the escalating Vietnam War, the nuclear arms race, and the
>>> further assassinations of Malcolm X, Martin
>>> Luther King, and Robert Kennedy. In each of those soul-shaking events
>>> Merton sensed an evil whose depth
>>> and deceit seemed to go beyond the capacity of words to describe.
>>>
>>> "One of the awful facts of our age," Merton wrote in 1965, "is the
>>> evidence that [the world] is stricken indeed,
>>> stricken to the very core of its being by the presence of the
>>> Unspeakable." The Vietnam War, the race to a
>>> global war, and the interlocking murders of John Kennedy, Malcolm X,
>>> Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy
>>> were all signs of the Unspeakable. It remains deeply present in our
>>> world. As Merton warned, "Those who are at
>>> present so eager to be reconciled with the world at any price must take
>>> care not to be reconciled with it under
>>> this particular aspect: as the nest of the Unspeakable. This is what too
>>> few are willing to see."
>>> When we become more deeply human, as Merton understood the process, the
>>> wellspring of our compassion
>>> moves us to confront the Unspeakable. --
>>>
>>> https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/index.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gesendet mit Proton Mail: Ein sicherer E-Mail-Dienst.
>>>
>>> mack devon <mackdevon74 at gmail.com> schrieb am Dienstag, 20. Januar 2026
>>> um 18:04:
>>>
>>> > Page 174 I've been stuck on for a little while. The book normally stays
>>> > pretty literal with its depictions, oftentimes getting a bit tricky
>>> with
>>> > what to take as metaphor or not. This is my 2nd read-through, I must
>>> not
>>> > have thought too much of this my first time around. Anyways, around
>>> early
>>> > page 174, after the Thanatoid introduction and DL & Takeshi explore
>>> > their village, a paragraph pops up that I'm still confused with.
>>> >
>>> > With a little context:
>>> >
>>> > "Yep, one foolish mistake, now I'm payin' it off for the rest of my
>>> life."
>>> >
>>> > "Only for the rest of mine, angel!" as up out of a calm and sunny ocean
>>> > the killer sub Unspeakable briefly poked its periscope, eyeballed their
>>> > vessel, ascertained that it was not the Love Boat, and withdrew. But
>>> they
>>> > were learning, together, slowly, how to take evasive action, and at the
>>> > moment it was down through an austere maze of Shade Creek alleyways and
>>> > vacant lots for an extended breakfast and another day's business.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Now, I've got a couple guesses as to this Unspeakable passage, as I'm
>>> > almost certain it's not meant to be taken literally (unless in
>>> reference to
>>> > the men after Takeshi currently spying...but that's way off it seems.)
>>> > There's a very likely chance this is not in reference to an actual
>>> Killer
>>> > Sub on the prowl.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 1. Could this be a classic Pynchon erection joke meant to reference
>>> > Takeshi's lust towards DL being unfulfilled due to her lack of desire
>>> & her
>>> > contract? The Unspeakable being The Unspeakable Erection, poking out,
>>> and
>>> > withdrawing when not encountering a Love Boat. I feel like there might
>>> be
>>> > some old-school slang for Unspeakable/unmentionable wrt a penis, but
>>> I'm
>>> > too young to know. (This is the most likely option to me.)
>>> >
>>> > 2. Could this be just a strange reference to Thanatoids spying on the
>>> duo,
>>> > noticing that they aren't in love, but rather that they're truly
>>> partners?
>>> > (Very unlikely, just made up to not have to 100% align myself with
>>> Erection
>>> > Theory.)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > This is my first post here, I wanted to discuss this topic as I haven't
>>> > seen these lines discussed anywhere, I hope I formatted this well
>>> enough.
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>