M&D truthtelling, history & I.F. Stone(WAS Publisher's Weekly (fwd)

[Sojourner]

At 09:55 AM 8/15/97 -0400, Peter Giordano wrote:

>I say:
>The above is a highly romantized vision of reading which does not bear out
>in the real world - Not because he argues that reading is as wonderful as
>what he describes, but because he excludes media of which he does not
>approve - The flaw in the above is best illustrated in his exemption of
>photography from his list - Why is photography exempt and not film?  Plenty
>of painters would (wrongly) disagree with him - Bottom line:  good film is
>just as rewarding as good literature and just as challenging
>

I would rather have every child be able to read a little than watch TV
a little.  If you agree with this statement, then it is clear which act is
of a more moral nature.

>I said:
>>>To relate this to Pynchon - How could one "get" GRAVITY'S RAINBOW without
>>>at least a passing experience with the films of the Marx Bros, CITIZEN
>>>KANE, or the work of Fritz Lang?
>He said:
>>I find this highly insulting and elitist.  I am not familiar with any of the
>>above so I guess I don't "get" Gravity's Rainbow.

>I say:
>It was not my intention to be insulting - I was merely raising an issue -
>The novel clearly has a foundation in our common film heritage - It opens
>and closes in a movie theater - The squares separating sections of the book
>are generally accepted to represent the sprockets of film reels - And much
>of the internal referencing in the novel is to a whole range of film
>experience - I asked a question: is it possible to "get" what trp had in
>mind if one does not share in the common range of experience he seems to
>expect?  I really don't know
>

I will say this, I appreciate your comments on expanding your original
statement.  You presupposed something in your original statement, which
is what I found insulting.

Now... your analysis of GR as being in the context of a movie is one which
has merit and is interesting and provocative.  It is, however, far from
absolute.  


>I'll give you another example - My ever delightful 13 year old son has been
>looking forward to watching Igmar Bergman's THE SEVENTH SEAL tonight, not
>because he's some sort of intellectual fan of Swedish movies, but because
>he has seem references to the film in various movies (like Woody Allen),
>comic books, and even theater) and he wants to see what the big deal is - I
>admire him for this - 

I do too.  It shows an inquisitive mind.

At the same time, I would not require Sojourner to
>sit through several hours of the Marx Bros (although he might enjoy it) -

I assure you I would not, as despite the hilarity or subtlety of these
movies, a portion of my mind would continuously be saying, "I am
watching people portray an artificial reality, using still pictures flashed
before me at 24 frames per second, in a non-interactive environment
about which I have to loosen my grasp on reality to attain an environment
of 'suspension of disbelief', and therefore loosen my hold on an empirical
world which ordinarily provides me with the reason for my own
existence".

>But at the same time I would suggest that his perception of GR might be
>different if he did see the Marx Bros. 

I thoroughly agree.

- One more example: I was in our
>local book store last night and I was talking to the manager about a book I
>wanted to read which I so far have only found in German - I told me 

I told me?  I assume you meant he told you that..

>that
>somebody gave him a copy of THE LORD OF THE RINGS in French which he is
>reading and enjoying - So I said "Well, you must speak French well" - And
>he said no his French is very poor 

I agree thoroughly.  The Qur'an loses a lot of important meaning when it is
not in Arabic, as does the Torah when it is not in Hebrew, and the New
Testament
when it is not in Aramaic.  BTW Don Quixote, one of the greatest novels ever
(if not THE greatest) is written in old and ornate Spanish, with a
grandiloquence
that is very hard to grasp (more time looking up stuff in the dictionary
than you
can imagine), and yet I found the English version a masterpiece unto
itself.  Same 
for Homer.

>Anyway, I cast no judgement on those who enjoy GR sans Marx and Fritz

Wonderful... I enjoy and "get" GR in my own opinion and it is entirely
without the help of the Cocoanut Horsefeathers Day at the Races crew.  I
hope everyone comes to GR from their own place, and find it rewarding
nonetheless.