[Paul Mackin]

David &/or Jane wrote:

> But back to the Determinate's God:
> Start with a singular Moral Omnipotent & Omnicient God (MO&OG) who has
> constructed a formula for salvation, a way by which those damned may cross
> over into the realm of those saved.

Well, I'd put it the other way around. We start with the hope of somehow
overcoming the mortality of our natural human existence, then some religious
genius like Saint Paul cobbles together that rather beautiful imagery of god,
his son and son's brothers quoted yesterday to frame that hope.

> A central problem here would be the
> existence of evil, which an MO&OG God would have to be allowing to exist,
> actually would have to have purposefully created to be so.  Equally
> problematic would be the existence of a Preterite, also ultimately of his
> creation.  Perhaps He has created a stage, an arena for us to perfom for
> his pleasure.  A moral God would have to make the formula for salvation in
> this arena so easy and so obvious that NO ONE could miss it.  But, if he
> were truly MO&OG, our needing salvation could not be possible.
>

It seems to me that the question of divine existence or divine morality is
secondary.  Personally I relegate them to nonquestions. The important
consideration is the possibility of  salvation itself regardless of how it
might be achieved. Pynchon seems to be saying there is no possibility of it
when a voice says early on 'you never thought you'd be saved' or something to
that effect. To me and other nonbelievers this is only stating the obvious.
The Pincher is always stating the obvious. It's just that he does it so well.

Of course I may be completely full of shit. :-)

                                        P.