Hitler's Pope

[Andignac, David]

	David Morris writes:

> 1.  The Pope:  He is infallible according to the most basic RCC doctrine.
> 
> This is sheer lunacy on its face.  It is, however, a basic source of the 
> crimes/corruption.  The "priestly hierarchy" begins here.
> 
	I reply:
	You seem to be a bit misguided on the issue of Infallibility.
Infallibility only pertains to doctrine and issues of morality. This usually
involves offical proclamations or councils on ethical, moral, or liturgical
issues. The college of bishops as a group share this Infallibility. When the
Pope clarifies the Church's belief in the Trinity he is Infallible. When he
empowers or ignores the impending threat of the Nazis he is not. Since we
are no longer in the business of persecuting heresies, this Infallibility
would seem to have little affect on non-Catholics.

	Is it lunacy that a Church's leaders set doctrine, moral guidelines
and standards and that the faithful accept that as true? 
	 
	David Morris continues:
> 2.  The need for a human mediator:  "Mediator" must be distinguished from 
> "Teacher."  The first is necessitated by the unworthiness or
> unacceptability 
> of the seeker, which is "hard-wired" into the relationship, ordained from 
> the mouth of the Pope.  The second is necessitated by the inability or 
> ignorance of the seeker, which the Teacher hopes to overcome, thus making 
> himself obsolete.
> 
	I reply:
	Do I consider myself unworthy or unacceptable to God because I
cannot consecrate the Eucharist, I cannot forgive sins, I cannot Confirm
believers?  Jesus did not tell the multitudes to go out and forgive sins, he
told his Apostles to. He said to them "What you hold bound on earth is bound
in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven."

	The clergy have commited themselves to a much more intensely
spiritual path than I. This deeper commitment allows them to assist me. The
Sacraments are a gift of grace which strengthen my relationship with God and
my personal growth. They are not "hard-wired" chains keeping me part of the
system. The difference is faith.

	David Morris:
> IMHO, both #1 & #2 above are sad doctrines.  "Sadness" is multiplied to 
> "disheartening" when the world-wide scope their acceptance is considered.
> 
	I reply:
	I understand that these are issues which will certainly not be
settled in this forum. I also understand now that your sadness is probably
not sadness for me, but for the fact that there are millions of people like
me out there - That this somehow affects your worldview in a negative way. I
apologize.

	David A. 

> David Morris
> 
> >From: "Andignac, David"
> >
> >As a political entity, I fully understand that the office of the pope and
> >the pope himself can invite criticism for practically any move he makes.
> I
> >have no issue with any of the earlier posts concerning these worldy 
> >matters.
> >
> >The post I was replying to seemed in my mind to shift the criticism from
> a
> >political to a spiritual level questioning the validity of the Pope or
> >office of the Pope for spiritual guidance.
> >
> >Perhaps I misunderstood the statement and it was actually saying that it 
> >was
> >disheartening that Catholics rely on the mediation of the Pope or his 
> >office
> >in a political sense. I can understand this statement a little better.
> >
> >I took mediation to mean the necessity of a third party to intercede 
> >between
> >one person and God. I have not had the honor of the Pope doing this for
> me
> >yet.
> >
> >David A.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:	s~Z >
> > > "Andignac, David" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >         How does my belief in a mediator for spiritual and
> sacramental
> > > > matters within the practive of my religion affect any of you in a
> > > negative
> > > > way?
> > >
> > > It doesn't. I have no quarrel with anything you said in your post. The
> > > office of the pope takes things a bit further than your belief 'that
> God
> > > can work through others as well as through my own personal interaction
> > > with Him (sic) to bring me closer to Him (sic) and improve me as an
> > > individual.'
> 
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