unlikely utopians (was Are They?)

[calbert at tiac.net]

> Charles wrote:
> I get the feeling that Pynchon would just as readily "send up"
> utopians of Gramsci's stripe as he would those of a more
> reactionary school....
> 
> Apart from Marx and Lenin, Gramsci could best be said to be following in 
> the footsteps of Machiavelli, his key work being titled The Modern 
> Prince.  Hardly utopian.  Bit of a cfass description all things 
> considered.

" Some of his terminology
became household words on the left, the most important of which, 
and the most complex, is the
term "hegemony" as he used it in his writings and applied to the 
twin task of understanding the
reasons underlying both the successes and the failures of 
socialism on a global scale, and of
elaborating a feasible program for the realization of a socialist 
vision within the really existing
conditions that prevailed in the world."

www.soc.qc.edu/gramsci/intro/engbio.html

but then, that is just one readers opinion, and he/she is probably a 
capitalist mole.........

  Unless you want to describe anyone who thinks capitalism can 
> be overthrown as utopian, which knowing you, Mr A, is possible.

And you , of course, can see right through me every time....
It figures that an anal retentive such as yourself would have such a 
narrow view of what constitutes "utopian"....Myself, I like to keep 
things pretty simple, those concerned with social and political 
structures envision either utopias or dystopias and many can do so 
without a lot of moral frothing at the mouth....now I WOULD, 
regardless of your readiness to take offense, classify Gramsci as a 
utopian, AND I DON'T THINK IT AN INSULT, it is merely a 
classification....to suggest that Pynchon would send him up is not 
to denigrate Gramsci's efforts, or sincerity...it is merely to suggest 
that Pynchon is  very consistent in that regard, and not necessarily 
mean spirited or cynical.....

> and a "we system" is always a "their system"
> to whomever is outside...and someone will ALWAYS be
> "outside"...
> 
> True, but none of this detracts from my original point, which is that 
> saying things like
> 
> Reagan is a
> flawed and frail human just like the rest of us, he has sold
> out, just like the rest of us (We R They)"


> 
> is crap politics."

no, the above is crap dialectics of the sort that most adults 
abandon after their sophomore year....

> If I had time I'd elaborate, but luckily for you all I 
> haven't,

hey, well just work to buff your lumps of coal into the brilliant 
rhetorical gems you always intended.....

> too much to be done in the waking world.

"save me, too!"

love,
cfa


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