Eminem (was: Influenced by GR?)

[jbor]

jody, on black music and dance:

> Jeez. That's too bad. It must have been REALLY cool before it became a
> medium for "escape, rebellion, subversion"...

The point is that r and b was either the food ticket for the black man or
else it helped the black man forget that he didn't have a food ticket in
white society. White man's r and b which followed was just pastiche. You
could probably trace a similar genealogy for rap music.

> Maybe there were even special
> songs and dances to get psyched up on, and then go and murder the majority
> of the neighboring tribe, rape the women, etc.

I guess it probably does all derive from percussive tribal ritual. Ayn Rand
certainly thought so. But that-all was a long time past, out of living
memory surely?

> But since they were black and
> technologically backward,

Er, "backward"? "Forward"?? Depends on *your* perspective I guess.

> too, it was different, I guess.
> Anyway. You get the point. There are no innocent races, tribes, groups, etc.

Right, just winners and losers.

> The white boys no more or less than the black boys.

You sure 'bout that?

snip
> Bottom line for this group: I have met very few blacks who have ever heard
> of Pynchon, let alone read his stuff. Although I have met some.

I wonder what the statistics are vis a vis whites and non-whites "who have
ever heard of Pynchon, let alone read his stuff". I'd say that
socio-economic circumstances, educational opportunity, and available leisure
time would be more meaningful discriminators than race. That is, if you need
to discriminate at all.

> But I have
> met many of the most god-foresaken inner city blacks you have ever dreamt
> of, and many of them were into rap, but not the way my 17 year-old
> priviledged son is, obviously. (He has no idea who Pynchon is, either,
> except for Lardass Levine). Still, the music is a bridge for him and his
> white (and asian and jewish) friends to understand and appreciate another
> facet of HIS American Culture,

Yes, this elitist notion that popular = bad is something Pynchon rebuts
soundly *throughout* his oeuvre. I'm sure the Menippean Satire crew could
comment on how the carnival and Middle Ages pop culture paved the way for
social and political change in European societies. "Popular" = of the
people, more so than "democracy", which is above all a mode of government
(i.e. control).

> and, therefore, it is way, way more valuable
> and influential than Pynchon will ever be.
snip

I think Pynchon might agree with this too. I'm not sure he'd be right.

best


----------
>From: jporter <jp4321 at IDT.NET>
>To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>Subject: Re: Eminem (was: Influenced by GR?)
>Date: Sun, Jul 23, 2000, 1:06 PM
>