Eminem (was: Influenced by GR?)

[jporter]

> From: "jbor" <jbor at bigpond.com>
> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 18:27:47 +1000
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Subject: Re: Eminem (was: Influenced by GR?)

jody:
>> Anyway. You get the point. There are no innocent races, tribes, groups, etc.

jbor:

> Right, just winners and losers.

Right. Which ones spend the most time reading Pynchon?

> 
>> The white boys no more or less than the black boys.
> 
> You sure 'bout that?

I'm sure Pynchon is read mainly by people who are not living in the streets.

> 
> I wonder what the statistics are vis a vis whites and non-whites "who have
> ever heard of Pynchon, let alone read his stuff". I'd say that
> socio-economic circumstances, educational opportunity, and available leisure
> time would be more meaningful discriminators than race. That is, if you need
> to discriminate at all.

Fine. You wonder about statistics. And then open your eyes and look at the
color of the skin of most people who enjoy the list of advantages you have
listed. Pynchon is not typically a poor man's entertainment. Trust me. Any
exceptions would be welcomed. There is something to be said for
authenticity, if only for the curiousity.

> 
>> But I have
>> met many of the most god-foresaken inner city blacks you have ever dreamt
>> of, and many of them were into rap, but not the way my 17 year-old
>> priviledged son is, obviously. (He has no idea who Pynchon is, either,
>> except for Lardass Levine). Still, the music is a bridge for him and his
>> white (and asian and jewish) friends to understand and appreciate another
>> facet of HIS American Culture,
> 
> Yes, this elitist notion that popular = bad is something Pynchon rebuts
> soundly *throughout* his oeuvre.

To the resounding cheers of all those who read him, while all those who
don't are enjoying popular culture.

>I'm sure the Menippean Satire crew could
> comment on how the carnival and Middle Ages pop culture paved the way for
> social and political change in European societies. "Popular" = of the
> people, more so than "democracy", which is above all a mode of government
> (i.e. control).

That's right. And rap tends to be a battle fought in the cultural arena for
a priviledge that the elite are not immediately interested in, since until
recently, with production and distribution well in hand, the elite has
profited either way. Meanwhile, democracy sits idle like an inner city
voting booth.  

jody