Kids

[Paul Mackin]

Seems like several of the current threads might be tied together with the
suffering of children idea Michel discusses.  I don't know where the idea
of the innocence and suffering of children stated but it was a theme
St. Augustine (don't know why I'm so obsessed with the old lecher) made
prominent use of at an important point in the development of Christian
thought. To St. A. child-suffering and innocence was the most notable
visible sign in the world of Adam's Sin which to him was synonomous with
the abject and helpless state of natural man. By extension of course in 
Augustine's view all mortals are equally helpless if not quite so innocent
in presiding over tendencies toward their own destruction (say as in
the "Kids" movie). Pelagius and the Pelegians, in order to get their point
over with regard to the gnostic idea of the hidden spirit within and the
ability of man to pull himself up by his own bootstraps, took the
contrasting view that the child was essentially independent of the father
(by extension God)  and could and should as quickly as possible assert
responsibility for his own fate. 

P plays both sides of the street. Children suffer and are
innocent. They also can take control.

This all ties in with Terrance's "bottom line" post about the difference
between the Catholic cycle of sin, repentance, and forgiveness and the
Protestant's gradual and more of less continuous rising toward human
perfection. Was Augustine vs the Pelagians a dress rehersal for the
Reformation and for Gravity's Rainbow. Very possibly.

Important tension in GR between the two poles. 

		P. 

On Sat, 24 Jun 2000, Michel Ryckx wrote:

> I thought the idea of 'innocent children' is fairly recent (developed
> during Mason-Dixon time) and a typical idea of the West -Rousseau
> started it, if I remember well.  Being a father of 2 daughters myself,
> it is fairly shocking to see what mr. Pynchon uses children for.  At
> random:
> 1. Gottfried and Katje as Hänsl and Gretl, with Blicero as the witch.
> They refer to 'der Kinderofen' -mentioning thus the fairy tale and an
> extermination camp, that absent presence in GR. (p.94.20).  Katje thinks
> of  Gottfried as 'Brother in play, in slavery... (p. 95.13)
> 2. Geli.  'Her song, she admits, sighing, is mostly wishful thinking'.
> (p. 290.34)  The other Geli I know of was the only woman Hitler ever
> loved, Geli Raubal who committed suiced in 1931.  He kept on mourning
> her (according to a Werner Maser study)
> 3. Slothrop on p. 286.21-22: 'Nice way to find out your father made a
> deal 20 years ago with somebody to spring for your education.'
> 4. The Herero girl Tchitcherine's father is sleeping with, is described
> as ' a sultry native wench' (p. 351.31)
> 5. The sad story of Ludwig looking for his lost lemming 'Ursula'
> (meaning 'little bear', a teddy bear?).  Slothrop says: 'Quit fooling'
> (p.553.40)
> 6. I've always imagined Byron the Bulb as a child not wanting to grow
> up.
> 
> We are conditioned to see children as beautiful and innocent.  They do
> no harm and have to be protected.  Of course this is not true (remember
> your own childhood), but it is a modern myth and we act according to it
> -or so we like to think.  As I've mentioned in an earlier post: mr.
> Pynchon uses wide-spread ideas and confronts us with the utter stupidity
> of it.  Children cause adults to commit treason.
> 
> Sad regards,
> Michel.
>