how to calumniate a foreigner (was: gib nazis keine chance! (was: FIY N...

[Lorentzen / Nicklaus]

Muchasmasgracias at cs.com schrieb:

> What the 
> hell are you people even TALKING about?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you 
> guys just chucking weird rebuttals at each other which are couched in terms 
> of such things as the relative merits of boy scouts and hitler youths and 
> shit like that?  Heavens to murgatroid, fellas, what gives?

  we're talking about free speech, & i'm talking about defamation. i mean, mr. 
  millison is accusing me of being a holocaust defender, & he even dares to   
  question my spiritual integrity (- "a german working with qbl? must be nazi   
  occultism!"). to give you the possibilty to reconstruct the development of 
  this conflict i repost (- sorry, but this here is damn serious to me) my 
  original argumentation on the holocaust, german culture & character 
  structures. to get the whole picture all the paragraphs have to be put into 
  c o n s t e l l a t i o n. it was an answer to a mail mr. millison had chosen 
  to call "german sadism":

>  Millison:
>
> > But, I
> > wonder if the German leadership could have sustained enough interest in
> > their genocide project, at every level of society necessary to implement
> > it, without appealing to sexuality and channeling it somehow into
> > extermination of the Other -- if so, use of the term "sadism" might be
> > appropriate. Psychologists and other specialists have studied this subject
> > extensively, I believe. 


> [- me:] some remarks & questions:
>
>     the more the war project on the eastern front failed the more ressources 
>     were detoured into the holocaust.
>
>     when you compare the german antisemitism in those days to the one in 
>     countries like france (- dreyfus affair) or russia (- many spontaneous 
>     pogroms), you'll hardly find a reason to call the german version, as 
>     goldhagen does, especially "eliminatiory". & when you take a look at the 
>     labor market data, you'll see that there was probably less structural 
>     discrimination against jews in germany than in the usa or in gb. that's 
>     also true for academia. [- for further explication of this see the mail i 
>     repostet this morning: kfl 6/5/00] 
>
>     right in the heart of modernity dwells "the extermination of the other". 
>     there are no dodoes anymore. you may read zygmunt bauman's "modernity and 
>     ambivalence" [1991]. & that's not something of the past ... these days 
>     we're witnessing the take-off of those so called "life sciences" ... in an 
>     interview in today's faz jeremy rifkin predicts "gene-wars" ... & of     
>     course this whole issue has essentially to do with "eugenics" (- which, by 
>     the way, weren't invented in germany) ... let's stop bio-technology now!  
>     
>
>     one word on german militarism (- a whole homegrown intellectual generation 
>     spend their lifes evoking that ghost). is there anyone out there who 
>     really believes that  t h i s  army and  t h e s e  politicians are able  
>     to initiate a global war (- or: any war)?! like manuel castells said in  
>     the  "spiegel"-interview last week: "the europeans and the japanese simply 
>     have decided not to spend so much money for armament, prefering to keep   
>     the us-american mercenary troops. & they don't even pay well ..." the 
>     significantly rising degree of global networking makes macro-destructions 
>     from the type "ww" improbable anyway.   
>
>     opportunities make perpetrators. in police stations all over this so     
>     called civilized world migrants from the south are, in the very moment    
>     you read this here, hit hard into the face ... cops, pimps, soldiers,    
>     dentists, people working in certain branches of organized crime, they all 
>     have good occasions to abreact something ...       
>
>     another question is that of character-structures [- still the best book on 
>     that is wilhelm reich's "character analysis". check out the revised & 
>     enlarged edition, and you can see how he came from psychoanalysis to 
>     bodywork]. very difficult issue. are there, in the professional groups i 
>     named in the last paragraph, really more sadists than in other working 
>     areas? & do they really, in these especially stressful situations, act 
>     crueler than, say, hysterics or schizoids? perhaps these violent outbursts 
>     in fullfilling the duty have a more diffuse abreactive quality and not an 
>     especially sado-masochistic one? and, oh yes, what about - "clinically" 
>     this is always the case - the mixing of sadist and masochist structures in 
>     the concrete human being? is pauline réage german? can people use evil 
>     institutional frames for good sexual intimacy? what does pynchon think 
>     about it? & what does he say in gr? very difficult issue.
>
>     [- in former list-discussions i recommended theweleit's "male fantasies". 
>     still think it to be a very creative and entertaining book. this certain  
>     form of  psycho-biographical literature reading is definitely a fruitful  
>     thing to do. but i'm not so sure anymore about the study's      
>     socio-historical aspects ...]  
>
>     actually the deportations weren't commented on in the radio or something. 
>     but for most cases it's probably safe to say that people could get some 
>     information about the holocaust if they wanted to. most did not want to. 
>     when the deportations really happened there were single pogrom like       
>     scenes, but most non-jewish germans simply shut the curtains & said      
>     something like "this will have an evil end for us". & here the collective 
>     memory of certain historical events like the reformation struggles, the  
>     thirty years war or, nearer, the combination of high reperations & black  
>     friday, played a significant role: "politics is a rotten business and in  
>     the end it's always on the expense of the little man: leave me alone".    
>     also contracted by angst - the bombennächte and the fathers, brothers and 
>     sons who were dying somewhere out in the war -  there wasn't that much   
>     space for schadenfreude. it was more like "at least they won't get me    
>     tonight". note that people were also afraid to get arrested or even      
>     executed for  common little crimes like stealing from public goods for   
>     personal use or telling hitler jokes. very few non-jewish germans did    
>     protest or work against the deportations. & this has  a l s o  to do with 
>     that historical collective memory of the german people. [- not only, in 
>     the other, occupied european countries the non-jewish resistance against  
>     the holocaust was, except for the dutch general strike in the february of 
>     1941, not really stronger. see the third part of raul hilberg's      
>     "perpetrators, victims, bystanders", 1992]. 
>
>     when people  d i d  help against the holocaust in one way or the other,   
>     they often did  n o t  get into serious trouble. fear is failure. & that's 
>     something we can learn ... 

      now tell me: do i, like mr. millison says, "defend germany's persecution 
      of jews"? 

                   interested in your honest opinion: kai