GRGR Finale Re: Homophobia in GR?

[jbor]

monroe:

> Nor do I, or others here, "think it ... unreasonable ... that Pynchon is not a
> bigot," as I--as we, perhaps--seem to have to keep pointing out.

Seemed to me that you were asking why Pynchon would "risk" negative
stereotypes. millison only yesterday seemed to be of the opinion that it is
"objectionable many of the ways that Pynchon has characterized homosexuality
in GR". "We"? Yourself, millison and the many faces of Eve is hardly a
consensus; not ever likely to be classed as a reliable cross-section of
readers at any rate, to be honest.

> To you, at
>> least.

Actually, I've been pointing to the ways in which Pynchon's
characterisations subvert these negative stereotypes.

> But stereotypes are used in the novel, seemingly problematic,
>> troubling, even, associations are made, and, again, "tak[ing] as a
hypothetical
>> starting point" that they are being neither carelessly nor maliciously
>> reproduced, again, "why use 'em, why risk 'em?"

And, what is it that you would like us to conclude from this contention,
professor? Without having to take the responsibility of saying it yourself.

> Not in the sense of, "why not
> just do without 'em, then?" but, rather, well, "why WERE they used, why WERE
> they risked?"  Start THERE, maybe, hypothetically or not.

But there *aren't* negative stereotypes in the text in the first place imo,
except as seen through the fractured lens of this or that character's
perceptions: Marvy's attitude to blacks, for example. So why would I -- or
anyone -- want to start there?

> This has got to be a
> waste of even YOUR time by now, Cap'n.

Well, you did ask now, didn't you:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:01:06 -0500
> Subject: Re: Gottfried & Blicero
> From: Dave Monroe <monroe at mpm.edu>
> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
>
> Now here's a few questions for any and all, which might or might not have been
> taken up here already, but ... but any thoughts on Pynchon's, Gravity's
> Rainbow's use of homosexuality?  Blicero and Gottfried seem to be the only
major
> characters with a homosexual relationship in GR (I phrase this as such as I'm
> not so sure that that's the same thing as saying that they are the only
> homosexual major characters in GR), unless one counts Margherita and Bianca as
> well.  Which only reinforces the association of homosexuality with incest,
> pedophilia, S&M/B&D, and, ultimately, death.   Not exactly unstereotypical
> associations.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds to me like you'd already made up *your* mind though, at least.

>
>
>
> But, if I may badger further, by all
> means, please, DO "read the *whole* text in a clear-sighted and open-minded
> manner" for the benefit of Th' Class, "enact that 'suspension of
> disbelief'"--though I'm not quite sure what I'm being asked to suspend my
> disbelief IN here, but ...--"so"--*so*--"necessary for true insight and
> intellectual and spiritual growth."  SHE-EESH.  'Nuff said ...