pynchon's list

[lorentzen-nicklaus]

 dave,

 why does your posting sound, as if you would prefer to stay with p-list's    
 balcanized snafu pattern? i know that this narrow resentfulness is dominating  
 in most long-time lists, but i don't think that this is unavoidable.

> On the  one hand ...
>
> --- lorentzen-nicklaus
> <lorentzen-nicklaus at t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> > i definitely believe that people like malignd or
> > david morris can do better things for this list than
> > dissing doug or his mother. 

> Okay, thanks, at least for myself, perhaps even for
> Doug, and definitely for those who, reluctant to be
> caught up in onlist hostilities, simply do not speak
> up about these recurrent shenanigans (and I believe
> this is indeed a "silent majority" here).  We ALL have
> better, more productive things to do.  

  certainly. well, dave, actually  y o u  were not adressed here. i simply don't 
  see you in a similar role like doug. (oh, now i remember, those bs charges 
  against rob being this or that were also pushed by you...but it seems - may   
  it be like that! - we're, finally, beyond this, are we?). but you claim to 
  speak for the "silent majority", those "reluctant to be caught up in onlist 
  hostilities". you've made this claim here more than once, so i guess there are 
  really people writing you offlist that my flamings prevent them from posting 
  their stuff. (but perhaps you're talking "out of the window" here and are   
  adressing somebody else?). i do not remember having flamed newbies or people 
  who rarely post or modest persons or shy ones. did i do this? when was this? 
  and what was it about? didn't i, in contrary, encourage lots of people      
  with interested, constructive replies?  what i actually remember is having, at 
  times, dissed or flamed established key-players. sometimes this happened in   
  context of those bs charges already mentioned and was, thus, justified;     
  sometimes it was, on both sides, more fun than anything else; sometimes i had 
  an asshole-day; and sometimes, sigh, the repudiated son's hatred for any kind 
  of natural authority gets into my ways ... i feel sad that keith is not       
  dwelling on these shores anymore, and i'm quite glad mr. flaherty still talks 
  to me. so, ashes on my head, grey grey ashes ...         
   

> But on the other hand (one which giveth, one which
> taketh away) ...
>
> > not that doug, back in the days, did not deserve it
> > or that it wasn't fun.  not at all.  but how long
> > shall we play this game?

> Taking that one last shot isn't really in the spirit
> of improving onlist relations now, is it? 

  hey, i'm trying to be kinda honest. what do you expect? all ambivalence gone 
  over night?! i can still feel lots of the pain related to some of his unjust  
  accusations, but it does not dominate my perceiving anymore. & no one with the 
  slightest psychological understanding would believe me when i say that i did 
  not, sometimes, enjoy the flamings. yet i can also imagine doug millison's    
  pain; i saw a photo just the other day. not everything i posted to or about   
  him was justified. i hope he sometimes thinks similar vice verca. i mean, a   
  guy lovin' pynchon, acid & brian wilson can, actually, not be that bad ... so 
  why not take a new look, making at least the try to keep interested,          
  respectful list-relations? this may include constructive conflict. you perhaps 
  did not realize it, but i've already started this try ...    

kai  //:: ps: i'm not aware of having taken any side in any war regarding the   
       lsd-discussion; it's just that psychedelica saved my life ...