Karma my ass! Quail, Davemarc, Kurt, and Doug

[Thomas Eckhardt]

Barbara wrote:


> I think I could accept the German Buddhist's remark even as you state it,
> though.  He
> said "the karmic debt of the Jews," but did you make a line of distinction
> where maybe he didn't? Could he have meant that because the Jews are a part
> of this world, this system, and their forebearers ran a show of force and
> destruction (like virtually every other people on the planet) they should
> expect (as we should all expect) ugly repercussions somewhere down the line?
> I doubt the monk would cite some specific blame to the Jewish people.  That,
> I'd guess, is what a Western mind would try to cite.  (Is this what Pynchon
> is on to in his Reader's obsession with Cause and Effect, I wonder...) The
> holocaust is a karmic debt. How could it be anything else? All bad things
> that happen are a karmic debt.

Dear Barbara,

are you saying the Jewish people, to use that term, just payed their debts
during the Holocaust? And that everybody in the world who is "part of this
world, this system" should just accept being killed because there is always a
karmic debt to be paid? What exactly do you mean by "part of this world, this
system"? Everybody on the planet? Is this about original sin? And are you saying
that somebody else who might have the means to stop the killing should accept
mass murder as a payment of the "karmic debt" as well instead of taking military
action? If so: This is indeed very close to Ghandi's view of the Holocaust which
I referred to a few weeks ago. And, with all due respect, it is as idiotic.

Thomas

P.S. If some German called the Holocaust "an ugly repercussion somewhere down
the line" of bad things forebearers of the adherents of the Jewish faith had
done in the course of history this would be the end of the discussion and of any
friendly relationship that might have existed before. I am willing to give you
the benefit of the doubt, if only because I perhaps don't really understand what
you are saying, much less the ideas behind it, but generally I find your
statement outrageous.

P.P.S. "All bad things that happen are a karmic debt." Starving children? The
Afghan people? Rape, torture, murder are ok because everybody is guilty, if not
individually then because of what his/her forebearers have done? I know I am
getting a little sarcastic here, but would you care to explain?




> And all good things that happen--well, I'm
> not sure what those are called.  But either way, good or bad or whatever you
> wanna call it, there's no escape from an effect. What we do matters--End of
> concept!  How it matters, and whether it matters good or matters bad, that's
> for us to learn--as individuals and as nations and beings of the Earth and
> Universe. The holocaust happened.  Bad things like it continue to happen.
> Every day, every hour, on every level of life, bad shit happens. Good things
> happen too, of course, but they're not weighing heavy enough as far as I'm
> concerned. (Davemarc, another example of throwing in my weight).   On the
> level I'm talking about here, we pay our karmic debt over and over again in
> Death. Two-hundred million in the last century alone killed pre-maturely in
> the course of War!  And we will continue to pay (disproportionately, no
> doubt,  "justly" and "unjustly" alike) until we STOP inflicting misery on
> one another. It's an amazingly simple concept if you think about it.  I'm
> amazed that people have such a hard time with it?
>
> Doug, thank you for your kind thoughts and words; and thank you for your
> VLVL posts. I'm not quite far enough along to know what all you were talking
> about, but you make me want to hurry up and read it. So I'll go now, to find
> karma in Vineland!  Thank you too for the weather report. That was so
> touching.
> And you were right.  We got soaked yesterday at the soccer game.
>
> Barbara
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The Great Quail <quail at libyrinth.com>
> To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:59 PM
> Subject: Karma my ass!