No subject

[barbara100 at jps.net]

Well what's got you so pissed off you're dragging me out of the archives? And why didn't you say anything then? Holding a grudge all this time
for heaven's sake! 

I'm not the pervert who linked "karmic" and "debt" together. Actually, I stole it from Gary Zukav. I think they go together well. And I stand behind my statement.  Sorry if you find it insensitive, but I believe America does have a karmic debt to pay. All of us do--as nations and as individuals and beings of the Earth and Universe. Perhaps I can explain.  I believe every little choice we make inevitably matters--from the small daily choices like whether or not we smile at passer-bys on the street, or speak our minds here on P-List; to how or if we vote and where we spend our money and whether we recycle instead of trash; to the grander choices like engaging in war or supporting Middle-eastern governments and freedom fighters.  No we don't usually see the effects, not right away anyway--we don't see the passerby's return smile leap from face to face as he makes his way uptown to work; we don't always see the delighted or angry or bored reactions of our P-List readers; our votes don't always win elections, and our dollar power often takes years to accrue; the Earth won't be polluted overnight, nor will the angry and downtrodden rise up tomorrow--but it all has an effect somewhere down the line Whether it be a big or small effect, or a positive or negative effect, everything HAS an effect.  It can't NOT have an effect.  (Isn't there some existentialist who talks about this?)  
So with respect to America now, I see all the dirty pool we've been playing for years, decades, and centuries coming back to bite us in the ass, this time in the form of Mid-east terrorists.  Call it cause and effect if you will, but Karma is no ordinary cause & effect.  It has no good or evil or fairness or blame.  It doesn't serve to punish but to teach.  I like to think of as Cosmic Cause & Effect.  No, I don't think that poor Afghani lady who was crushed as she slept was paying a karmic debt for something she herself had done--that's a view for the Monotheistics.  She paid for what we've all been doing, Americans and Afghanis alike.  Is it fair?  Probably not to her; but in the larger sense, yeah, I guess I'd have to say it is fair.   
So here I am today ranting and raving about how bad the war stinks.  Do I think it's gonna help?  Not really.  Not right away.  And probably not in my lifetime.  But what's my alternative?  Play along with you all and throw in my weight with something that causes misery for others down the line? Or say, no, and hope that by living it I'll inevitably--far far into the future--create it?  I create no matter what I do--it's my one pathetic little power in this life--so I wanna make it as good as I can. 
As for fueling battles here on the P-List with my offensive and obnoxious behavior, well, not everybody sees it that way.  Sorry you do, but like one P-Lister said of Mr. Pynchon's views, "I have an absolute right to flail my arms about wildly, up to the point where they meet your nose." (Thanks Tyrone!) There's a very important line of distinction in that statement, and I'm in no way crossing it. 

Barbara 
 



----- Original Message ----- 
From: davemarc 
To: Pynchlist 
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:03 PM 
Subject: Re: Fw:WRL on Attacks 


> From: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:35 PM 
> Subject: Re: Fw:WRL on Attacks 
> 
> 
> > America must have an enormous karmic debt to pay. Let's just pay it and 
> learn our lessons. 
> 
> ** 
> 
> From: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:00 PM 
> Subject: Just War--who's the pervert who ever tried to link those two 
words 
> together? 
> 
> 
> > I just heard on KPFA radio 
> > https://secure.transbay.net/kpfa/forms/0_aud.htm ) that a humanitarian 
> aid 
> > package, a packing weighing more than a half ton, came crashing down 
into 
> an 
> > Afghani house early yesterday morning killing a woman while she sleep. 
> > Isn't that a sad irony? Believe me, Jbor, I'd rather have her alive 
under 
> > those humanitarian blankets (it was reported to be a cargo full of 
> blankets) 
> > than be able to say 'I told you so,' but Doug told you so. 
> 
> Maybe she and her baby had an enormous karmic debt to pay, too. Maybe all 
> of Afghanistan needs to pay it and learn lessons. Or maybe karma has a 
> double standard. 
> 
> Or maybe barbara100 at jpx.net simply wrote something incredibly stupid and 
> callous less than 12 hours after thousands of civilians from all over the 
> world were murdered by a anonymous, suicidal fanatics--suggesting that 
those 
> people actually had it coming. Perhaps barbara100 at jpx.net is the pervert 
> who tried to link "karmic" and "debt" together. 
> 
> What a puzzlement! I just can't figure out this karma thing as expressed 
by 
> barbara100 at jpx.net. Maybe it's just that other people on this list know 
> better than I do. Maybe I should just understand that, while I happen to 
be 
> overwhelmed trying to sort out the complicated state of the world, they 
are 
> absolutely clear-headed and right-minded, able to judge who deserves to be 
> killed and also able to foresee the future. They know what's right, and 
> who's wrong, and who should be killed, and who should be insulted, and who 
> is privileged to take revenge. Or maybe they're just as ignorant and 
> informed as all the rest of us, only more prone to offensive or obnoxious 
> rhetoric, fueling verbal battles even while they cry out to pacify 
military 
> ones. 
> 
> But what do I know? I'm just 
> 
> d. 
>


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