MDDM Ch. 67 Various

[Terrance]

jbor wrote:
> 
> on 2/8/02 1:47 PM, Terrance at lycidas2 at earthlink.net wrote:
> 
> > let's say for arguments
> > sake (since we are at the crossroads here) that he intends us to think
> > about this passage in Walden.
> 
> OK, but only if we can also say that he intends us to think about Native
> American animism, which is the actual context of the reference in the text.

As I said, I'm not confident that P wants us to read an allusion to
Walden here. 
Of course the actual context, American animism, is what the author wants
us to think about. 


> 
> I know who Thoreau was, and I'm familiar with 'Walden'.




> 
> Interpretively-speaking, I don't see that the discussion around
> "Sky-fishing" in Pynchon's text (651-2) is privileging Thoreauvian
> Transcendentalism (i.e. a species of Christian faith) over Native American
> spiritualism (i.e. a species of paganism), or even over Dixon's "Amazing
> Bread Lure" and Geordie fishing skills (i.e. an example of worldly human
> knowhow and prowess). 

Me neither. 


And it is the latter two which are the direct
> references here. There is Christian symbolism (fish, bread) but there is
> pagan symbolism and ritual (the Bear, "the precise Six-Nations Gesture for
> Peace") as well.

Agreed. 


> 
> > that is an
> > Eastern/Western and Above Below, a Christian Indian and Indian tangle,
> > Thoreau is logical allusion.
> 
> I don't understand the chain of connections here.

As I said, I'm not sure P intends the allusion to Thoreau (obviously the
fishing in the sky tale is Native American), but the chain or tangle of
lines, connecting various religious traditions is obvious throughout the
text and is worth looking into, imho. As I said, I'm simply adding (to
what is in the archives and part of the discussion) what I think could
be a logical (a little joke here)  allusion to   Thoreau. 

I'll say more on this later. 


> 
> > Suppose that Revd WC and/or Pynchon is still looking at christianity and
> > its many splits and movements as they tangle up and untangle.
> 
> Jemmy, whose spiritual "Protector" is a bear, is not a Christian.

Yes I know that. My supposition goes to the various christian sects in
the chapter (not that I think we should privilege the christian or even
disentangle it from the Pagan--this has been my argument here for nearly
three years, but of course people like yourself insist on painting me
into a christian-privlidgeing corner. 

> That's right. You've been writing my email ID as Jbore and Jay Bore for
> several months now in a juvenile attempt to cause insult. Please desist.

So serious now, Robert. OK, I can do serious.