decadanse bis

Wed Jul 10 21:49:49 CDT 2002

This last reply (though reply is not quite right word for an uncalled
admonishment ) has a strange familiar echo of someone else.

SCB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Monica Belevan" <meet_mersault at hotmail.com>
To: <alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr>
Cc: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: decadanse bis

>
> Gregory, we may talk as soon as you stop disemboweling things from their
> contexts. Learn to read and synthetize information. It may take you a good
> few years.
>
> >From: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
> >Reply-To: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
> >To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >Subject: decadanse bis
> >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:08:24 +0200
> >
> >hey monikuh
> >
> >well i agree with what you say, i was just pointing out that when you
> >look into it, there is a difference between poètes maudits and
> >parnassians and symbolists. If mallarmé and verlaine are
> >  related to parnasse, they were mavericks (as opposed to dull
> >  parnassians like, say, gautier)  and ducasse sure
> >couldn't be related to any of those parisian circles. could it be
> >that we secretly agree but still anjoy playing the very french sport of
> >"couper
> >les cheveux en quatre", monique?
> >
> >gregory
> >
> >MB> Yes, Gregorovius, but if we are going to reduce everything ad
absurdum
> >ad
> >MB> nauseam, then we better discuss Husserl and solipsism, or ourobouros,
> >or
> >MB> algebraic reversibilities.
> >
> >MB> I appreciate the link, I´ll fish through it soon. Perhaps the system
in
> >MB> France is different; however, in the chronology of literary history,
> >the
> >MB> peak manifestations of the decadent spirit are set in the
> >MB> Parnassian-Symbolist intervals. It´s not set in stone, Gregor, but
it´s
> >MB> fairly consensual.
> >
> >MB> --Monica
> >
> >
> > >>From: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
> > >>Reply-To: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
> > >>To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> > >>Subject: la décadanse
> > >>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:48:06 +0200
> > >>
> > >>hey monica,
> > >>
> > >>décadence (or anything, for that matter) can be traced back forever,
you
> > >>know, if you want to go
> > >>there. you're the one who mentioned it in relation to the
> > >>"poètes maudits" and the 19th century, so i was just pointing out that
> >here
> > >>it's not
> > >>really what we understand by décadents, but something more specific,
> > >>but that's ok monica, and i actually know what you mean (and agree)
but
> >we
> > >>just
> > >>don't use the same terms, you see. In France. Not my fault. No
> > >>affectation here or whatever. That's how we learn about it. I swear.
> >Check
> > >>this out for
> > >>example (i don't know if you read french):
> > >>http://www.bmlisieux.com/curiosa/jtellier.htm
> > >>Get my point?
> > >>oh and please, when you're done looking down on me, dear, could you
> >start
> > >>spelling my name right?
> > >>thank you
> > >>
> > >>Grégory (not Grégoire, i used to beat people up for that one...
> > >>just kidding(i figure i should make that clear, seeing how natural
> > >>humor is around here...)!)
> > >>MB> Gregoire-- ´´decadentism´´, is, in fact, the art of supreme
> > >>affectation, and
> > >>MB> if you are merely picking at the smaller threads and timelines you
> >only
> > >>have
> > >>MB> part of the picture. More than decadent art ( a contradcition in
> >terms,
> > >>MB> perhaps?), there is a decadent cosmovision. That is precisely what
> > >>MB> Parnassians, Symbolists and even French proto-Surrealists like
> > >>Lautreamont
> > >>MB> share, that special disposition, that agriculture of spleen. The
> >term
> > >>itself
> > >>MB> is English and was coigned by Baudelaire, who set the definitive
> > >>antecedent
> > >>MB> for this form of aestheticism. If you trace it further back, you
> >shall
> > >>MB> discover a rich Gothic influence as well. Abridging the decandent
> > >>esprit to
> > >>MB> schools and petit comites, however, testifies to your own
> >affectation,
> > >>and
> > >>MB> fails to do much justice to it´s historical import in the
> > >>reconstruction of
> > >>MB> aesthetics.
> > >>MB> This was all discussed to some extent in recent p-list postings,
´´
> >The
> > >>MB> Aesthetics of Ugliness´´.
> > >>
> > >>MB> David-- I don´t have either M&D or V. with me, so it is impossible
> >for
> > >>me to
> > >>MB> address you an answer as punctually as I would like to. No less, I
> >was
> > >>MB> referring to a more global atmosphere to Pynchon´s texts. To
reading
> > >>the
> > >>MB> Pynchon that Paul likes to read, he´s the Pynchon I like best as
> >well.
> > >>And
> > >>MB> your quotations testify to this. If you read them, as they are,
you
> > >>will
> > >>MB> notice that V.´s intrinsic polyhedric architecture makes of
> >Decadence
> > >>an x
> > >>MB> variable, a term of multipe acceptations, and shifting
affectations
> >as
> > >>well.
> > >>MB> One of the quotations, in fact, even points to a particular
vitality
> >in
> > >>MB> decadence:
> > >>
> > >>MB> ´´This sort of arranging and rearranging was Decadence, but the
> > >>exhaustion
> > >>MB> of all possible permutations and combinations was death." 298
> > >>
> > >>MB> I do not believe we disagree.
> > >>
> > >>MB> Love, Monica
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>MB> _________________________________________________________________
> > >>MB> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>Best regards,
> > >>  alfredjprufrock
> > >>mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >MB> _________________________________________________________________
> >MB> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Best regards,
> >  alfredjprufrock
> >mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>
>
>
>
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