la reine du parnasse

Thu Jul 11 03:36:28 CDT 2002

You know what's funny?
So far doug has been very correct to me.
uncalled admonishments came from monica (and one david morris, but
does that even count), whose idea of exchanging ideas seems to be that i
bow down and praise her infinite wisdom. i never was antagonistic
towards you, monica, just stating something, so stop being
condescending.

 oh and it's ok, monica, you know, i always believed you were a woman, a pretty rude one, but a
woman.

all i was saying is that the parnassians as a group represent in
french literary history (as we learn it here, i'll say it again, and i
totally see your point for fuck's sake) a very bourgeois movement, in
the end, and we usually do not relate them with the poètes maudits.
is that attacking you? no. is that being rude? i don't think so.

"disemboweling thnigs from their contexts"? surely you don't mean
historical context, because as far as that's concerned when ducasse
arrives he takes a stand against the parnassians who by then have
become the epitome of bourgeois poetry, mallarmé and verlaine
don't make it into the second (or third i forgot) parnasse because
they're too much (too décadent probably, which is exactly my point).

and about learning to read i would tell you something but i don't want to
be as rude as you.

have a good day, wise woman

and thanks for the support simon

gregory

MB> Simon, Gregory, apologies for that most outlandish Doug impersonation. 
MB> You´re completely correct.

MB> --Monica

>>From: "Simon Bryquer-RR" <sbryquer at nyc.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: "Simon Bryquer-RR" <sbryquer at nyc.rr.com>
>>To: "Monica Belevan" <meet_mersault at hotmail.com>,   
>><alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr>
>>CC: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>Subject: Re: decadanse bis
>>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:49:49 -0400
>>
>>This last reply (though reply is not quite right word for an uncalled
>>admonishment ) has a strange familiar echo of someone else.
>>
>>SCB
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Monica Belevan" <meet_mersault at hotmail.com>
>>To: <alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr>
>>Cc: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:50 PM
>>Subject: Re: decadanse bis
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Gregory, we may talk as soon as you stop disemboweling things from their
>> > contexts. Learn to read and synthetize information. It may take you a 
>>good
>> > few years.
>> >
>> > >From: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> > >Reply-To: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> > >To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> > >Subject: decadanse bis
>> > >Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:08:24 +0200
>> > >
>> > >hey monikuh
>> > >
>> > >well i agree with what you say, i was just pointing out that when you
>> > >look into it, there is a difference between poètes maudits and
>> > >parnassians and symbolists. If mallarmé and verlaine are
>> > >  related to parnasse, they were mavericks (as opposed to dull
>> > >  parnassians like, say, gautier)  and ducasse sure
>> > >couldn't be related to any of those parisian circles. could it be
>> > >that we secretly agree but still anjoy playing the very french sport of
>> > >"couper
>> > >les cheveux en quatre", monique?
>> > >
>> > >gregory
>> > >
>> > >MB> Yes, Gregorovius, but if we are going to reduce everything ad
>>absurdum
>> > >ad
>> > >MB> nauseam, then we better discuss Husserl and solipsism, or 
>>ourobouros,
>> > >or
>> > >MB> algebraic reversibilities.
>> > >
>> > >MB> I appreciate the link, I´ll fish through it soon. Perhaps the 
>>system
>>in
>> > >MB> France is different; however, in the chronology of literary 
>>history,
>> > >the
>> > >MB> peak manifestations of the decadent spirit are set in the
>> > >MB> Parnassian-Symbolist intervals. It´s not set in stone, Gregor, but
>>it´s
>> > >MB> fairly consensual.
>> > >
>> > >MB> --Monica
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >>From: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> > > >>Reply-To: alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> > > >>To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> > > >>Subject: la décadanse
>> > > >>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:48:06 +0200
>> > > >>
>> > > >>hey monica,
>> > > >>
>> > > >>décadence (or anything, for that matter) can be traced back forever,
>>you
>> > > >>know, if you want to go
>> > > >>there. you're the one who mentioned it in relation to the
>> > > >>"poètes maudits" and the 19th century, so i was just pointing out 
>>that
>> > >here
>> > > >>it's not
>> > > >>really what we understand by décadents, but something more specific,
>> > > >>but that's ok monica, and i actually know what you mean (and agree)
>>but
>> > >we
>> > > >>just
>> > > >>don't use the same terms, you see. In France. Not my fault. No
>> > > >>affectation here or whatever. That's how we learn about it. I swear.
>> > >Check
>> > > >>this out for
>> > > >>example (i don't know if you read french):
>> > > >>http://www.bmlisieux.com/curiosa/jtellier.htm
>> > > >>Get my point?
>> > > >>oh and please, when you're done looking down on me, dear, could you
>> > >start
>> > > >>spelling my name right?
>> > > >>thank you
>> > > >>
>> > > >>Grégory (not Grégoire, i used to beat people up for that one...
>> > > >>just kidding(i figure i should make that clear, seeing how natural
>> > > >>humor is around here...)!)
>> > > >>MB> Gregoire-- ´´decadentism´´, is, in fact, the art of supreme
>> > > >>affectation, and
>> > > >>MB> if you are merely picking at the smaller threads and timelines 
>>you
>> > >only
>> > > >>have
>> > > >>MB> part of the picture. More than decadent art ( a contradcition in
>> > >terms,
>> > > >>MB> perhaps?), there is a decadent cosmovision. That is precisely 
>>what
>> > > >>MB> Parnassians, Symbolists and even French proto-Surrealists like
>> > > >>Lautreamont
>> > > >>MB> share, that special disposition, that agriculture of spleen. The
>> > >term
>> > > >>itself
>> > > >>MB> is English and was coigned by Baudelaire, who set the definitive
>> > > >>antecedent
>> > > >>MB> for this form of aestheticism. If you trace it further back, you
>> > >shall
>> > > >>MB> discover a rich Gothic influence as well. Abridging the 
>>decandent
>> > > >>esprit to
>> > > >>MB> schools and petit comites, however, testifies to your own
>> > >affectation,
>> > > >>and
>> > > >>MB> fails to do much justice to it´s historical import in the
>> > > >>reconstruction of
>> > > >>MB> aesthetics.
>> > > >>MB> This was all discussed to some extent in recent p-list postings,
>>´´
>> > >The
>> > > >>MB> Aesthetics of Ugliness´´.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>MB> David-- I don´t have either M&D or V. with me, so it is 
>>impossible
>> > >for
>> > > >>me to
>> > > >>MB> address you an answer as punctually as I would like to. No less, 
>>I
>> > >was
>> > > >>MB> referring to a more global atmosphere to Pynchon´s texts. To
>>reading
>> > > >>the
>> > > >>MB> Pynchon that Paul likes to read, he´s the Pynchon I like best as
>> > >well.
>> > > >>And
>> > > >>MB> your quotations testify to this. If you read them, as they are,
>>you
>> > > >>will
>> > > >>MB> notice that V.´s intrinsic polyhedric architecture makes of
>> > >Decadence
>> > > >>an x
>> > > >>MB> variable, a term of multipe acceptations, and shifting
>>affectations
>> > >as
>> > > >>well.
>> > > >>MB> One of the quotations, in fact, even points to a particular
>>vitality
>> > >in
>> > > >>MB> decadence:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>MB> ´´This sort of arranging and rearranging was Decadence, but the
>> > > >>exhaustion
>> > > >>MB> of all possible permutations and combinations was death." 298
>> > > >>
>> > > >>MB> I do not believe we disagree.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>MB> Love, Monica
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>MB> 
>>_________________________________________________________________
>> > > >>MB> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> > > >>MB> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>--
>> > > >>Best regards,
>> > > >>  alfredjprufrock
>> > > >>mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >MB> _________________________________________________________________
>> > >MB> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
>>http://messenger.msn.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > >Best regards,
>> > >  alfredjprufrock
>> > >mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>> >
>> >

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-- 
Best regards,
 alfredjprufrock                            mailto:alfredjprufrock at club-internet.fr