NP more Bush Nazi connection

Thu Jan 23 21:47:02 CST 2003

--- calbert at hslboxmaster.com wrote:
> > 1. the article is not new and the  author's
> assertions
> > are not new,  either to the conspiracy theory
> public
> > at large or to this list,   so I see no reason to
> post
> > this article under the subject "more bush nazi
> > connection"
> 
> I don't get an e-mail tickler telling me about Mr.
> Loftus' upcoming 
> endeavours......The story told is new to me, and may
> or may not be 
> to others..........It was offered this morning in 
> another context, and 
> I thought to pass it on - given a record of interest
> in the matter on  
> the list......... 

Whatever. It's on the table, once again. Anyone can
carve a boneless goose. This one's skin has been
picked at and chewed on for the better part of three
years now. Well, at least we won't have to dislodge a
bone from anyone's throat. 

>  
> > the connection, if there is or ever was one has
> never
> > been proven with any credible source material.
> 
> I swear, I WAN'T very much to be polite.....but what
> the FUCK do 
> you think those vesting orders are about?  Or do you
> believe they 
> don't  exist.....

I don't believe you want to be polite. But that's fine
with me. You may answer my questions and I will answer
your questions and we can argue the points or not.
It's up to you. If I have to keep replying to your
polite insults and rediculous questions I think I'll
move on. Pragmatism, Adams, Weiner, Entropy, so
on...your point here seems to be that I should open
the book and look at the notes. I have. 

Next. 

> > the author's title is spin because we expect to
> read
> > about how the bush family made its fortune from
> the
> > nazis. that's not what the article is about. How
> could
> > it be? The Bush family did not make its fortune
> from
> > the nazis. 
> 
> You are, for reasons unexplained, clearly more
> intimate with the 
> financial circumstances of the Famiglia than I or
> Loftus can hope to 
> be........We know that Prescott married into some
> serious East 
> Coast money, but I have no idea to what extent  the
> 750k 
> described in the article changed his circumstances -
> but I'm 
> guessing that such a sum represented a considerable
> portion of 
> the man's assets........

First, the article is not about how the Bush family
got its fortune from the nazis. 

Second, you are guessing wrong about the Bush family's
wealth. There is no way that the Bush family got it's
wealth from dealing with Nazis because they were
already wealthy long before the nazis had any
significant role in world affairs. 

Third, I can't account for that 750K. Can you? 
It doesn't make any sense. 
It doesn't add up. The entire mess doesn't add up.
It's stuck togethert with paste and pudding. 

> > so, "Credentialled" or not there is no case made
> in
> > that article. The article is spin and propaganda. 
> 
> 
> You prattle therefore you must  be correct? The
> article describes, 
> in considerable detail, how Thyssen used foreign
> banks, including 
> "divisions" of BBH, to shelter his assets, and to
> keep them out of 
> the reach,  not only of the allies, but  apparently
> also from the 
> Nazis.....

I know all about what he did and what his motives
were. 
He wanted to keep his businesses.  And everyone else
wanted to take them away. And they did. You seem to be
assumiong that big business in Germany was pro-Nazi,
they were not. It was at best, a strained relationship
from the get go and it got worse everyday Hitler
climbed another rung on the political ladder. Outside
Germany there was almost as much grabbing of assests
and control as inside. I think it was 1939 when he
lost  a big chunk of his assets and that set the big
money scrambling. 

Bush assets were seized in the US.  And so were the
assets of lots of  heavy duty wealthy families and
firms and businesses in America. So what? Why did
Kennedy work to get the assets returned? Because he
thought these guys were criminals?   BBH was not the
fucking mafia. It was a  White shoe. 

I'll tell you where the real story is. There is no
Nazi story. That's just spin. But what's happened
since Ike is that American politicians across the
board, this includes the Bush family, the Clintons, ou
current Mayor in NYC, and the pig that just left, have
gotton bold in your face greedy and grabby and
corrupt. Enron. Whitewater. It's not just spin. This
is a trend. We have seen it in America before and and
curiously enough, in England under George. 

You seem to rest your "spin' argument on
> the thin reed of 
> Loftus' choice of title - a matter trivial to the
> issue.......are you a 
> Harriman  heir anxious to defend the honor of your
> family?

It's not trivial. 
Let's say, I know this stuff from the inside out. 

> > Up on my ass, best beast known to man for climbing
> > loose piles of shifting rock and horse-hocky,
> kicking:
> 
> Strive, get up on your hind legs.... 
> 
> > Question one: 
> > 
> > 
> > When did Fritz Thyssen obtain financing from Brown
> > Brothers Harriman, and its affiliate, the Union
> > Banking? What month and year? How much financing
> did
> > they receive? What was the structure of the
> financing?
> 
> Here is text from the vesting orders (parenthetical 
> comments by 
> the authors of the piece) :
> 
> "The order seizing the bank `` vests '' (seizes) ``
> all of the capital 
> stock of Union Banking Corporation, a New York
> corporation, '' and 
> names the holders of its shares as:
> 
>       `` E. Roland Harriman--3991 shares ''
>       [chairman and director of Union Banking Corp.
> (UBC); this is `` 
> Bunny '' Harriman, described by Prescott Bush as a
> place holder 
> who didn't get much into banking affairs; Prescott
> managed his 
> personal investments]
> 
>       `` Cornelis Lievense--4 shares ''
>       [president and director of UBC; New York
> resident banking 
> functionary for the Nazis]
> 
>       `` Harold D. Pennington--1 share ''
>       [treasurer and director of UBC; an office
> manager employed by 
> Bush at Brown Brothers Harriman]
> 
>       `` Ray Morris--1 share ''
> 
>       [director of UBC; partner of Bush and the
> Harrimans]
> 
>       `` Prescott S. Bush--1 share ''
>       [director of UBC, which was co-founded and
> sponsored by his 
> father-in-law George Walker; senior managing partner
> for E. Roland 
> Harriman and Averell Harriman]
> 
>       `` H.J. Kouwenhoven--1 share ''
>       [director of UBC; organized UBC as the
> emissary of Fritz 
> Thyssen in negotiations with George Walker and
> Averell Harriman; 
> managing director of UBC's Netherlands affiliate
> under Nazi 
> occupation; industrial executive in Nazi Germany;
> director and 
> chief foreign financial executive of the German
> Steel Trust]
> 
>       `` Johann G. Groeninger--1 share ''
>       [director of UBC and of its Netherlands
> affiliate; industrial 
> executive in Nazi Germany]
> 
>       `` all of which shares are held for the
> benefit of ... members of 
> the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals
> ... of a 
> designated enemy country.... ''
> 
> http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm
> 
> this suggests  that Prescott and other BBH officers
> held interests 
> "in favor" of the Thyssen family..........
> 
> Rather than reproduce the entire chapter dealing
> with Bushes and 
> Nazis, I would prefer you took a look and let me
> know what 
> SPECIFICALLY you find unsubstantiated.......do take
> the time to 
> look at the footnotes.......
> 
> I'll be right here....

What am I supposed to say? I think the entire book is
a sham. 

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