NP more Bush Nazi connection

[calbert at hslboxmaster.com]

I remain prepared to take this off list.......
> >  
> > > the connection, if there is or ever was one has
> > never
> > > been proven with any credible source material.
> > 
> > I swear, I WAN'T very much to be polite.....but what
> > the FUCK do 
> > you think those vesting orders are about?  Or do you
> > believe they 
> > don't  exist.....
> 
> I don't believe you want to be polite.

Hey, given you know the Famiglia better than the rest of us, why 
shouldn't you know me better than I know myself.....

 But that's fine
> with me. You may answer my questions and I will answer
> your questions and we can argue the points or not.

SO far, you have provided ZIP.........a lot of rhetorical flourishes, but 
nothing which I can address......


> It's up to you. If I have to keep replying to your
> polite insults"

now thats plural, so I guess you are sore about the "donkey" 
flip......eschew the bells and whistles and I won't reply in kind....

 and rediculous questions I think I'll
> move on. Pragmatism, Adams, Weiner, Entropy, so
> on...your point here seems to be that I should open
> the book and look at the notes. I have. 
> 
> Next.

Convenient.....but you haven't answered  my question about the 
vesting orders.......you want to twist around the margin without 
committing to a position on their authenticity......
> 
> > > the author's title is spin because we expect to
> > read
> > > about how the bush family made its fortune from
> > the
> > > nazis."

Define "Bush Family Fortune" as you understand it....


 that's not what the article is about. How
> > could
> > > it be? The Bush family did not make its fortune
> > from
> > > the nazis. 

OK, you've made that assertion before....If you would elaborate we 
could find some traction on this part of the issue......



> First, the article is not about how the Bush family
> got its fortune from the nazis. 

It makes clear that Prescott was one of two recipients of 750K 
shares in Union Bank........in 1951, that was real money....when 
you clarify the matter of the Famiglia finances, we can determine 
EXACTLY what part of total Famiglia equity this sum represents.... 
 
> Second, you are guessing wrong about the Bush family's
> wealth. There is no way that the Bush family got it's
> wealth from dealing with Nazis because they were
> already wealthy long before the nazis had any
> significant role in world affairs. 

The WALKERS, Prescotts in laws, were the connected ones...as I 
recall Prescott came out of the midwest somewhere (St. Louis< I 
think) where the Bush's appear to have been local shiskas, but 
certainly NOT in the Walker league.....



> Third, I can't account for that 750K. Can you? 
> It doesn't make any sense. 
> It doesn't add up. The entire mess doesn't add up.
> It's stuck togethert with paste and pudding. 

Not at all.......remember that the vesting orders list Prescott one of 
seven, shareholders of that Union  Bank......the "confiscation" was 
really quite gentle - assets were returned after the war, and  
Prescott's share was valued at the 750,000......no mystery here...



> I know all about what he did and what his motives
> were. 
> He wanted to keep his businesses.  And everyone else
> wanted to take them away. And they did. You seem to be
> assumiong that big business in Germany was pro-Nazi,
> they were not.

You sound like you are unaware of the fact that Thyssen Sr.'s two 
sons went "opposite ways" - one became a gung ho Nazi,  and the 
other was sent to eastern  Europe, to marry into some dynasty - 
the name of which is still attached to the surviving Thyssen 
interests.....it is believed that Sr. was hedging his bets.....

I have no idea where you come up with the notion that I assume 
anything about the allegiances of German business tycoons..... 


 It was at best, a strained relationship
> from the get go and it got worse everyday Hitler
> climbed another rung on the political ladder. Outside
> Germany there was almost as much grabbing of assests
> and control as inside. I think it was 1939 when he
> lost  a big chunk of his assets and that set the big
> money scrambling. 


Loftus' point, confirmed by other accounts is that Thyssen, far from 
losing ANYTHING to the Nazis, was able to finesse them away 
from even the domestic german assets, by using the ducth branch 
of the family to front for him and claim them.......one account 
suggests that he actully succeeeded in "double dipping", that is 
maintained controll of the assets even  after being compensated for 
the loss.....

> Bush assets were seized in the US.  And so were the
> assets of lots of  heavy duty wealthy families and
> firms and businesses in America. So what?"

It's the why's..........are you suggestng that these seizures were  
arbitrary?

 Why did
> Kennedy work to get the assets returned? Because he
> thought these guys were criminals?   BBH was not the
> fucking mafia. It was a  White shoe. 

So was Dillon.........and his buddy Draper......


> I'll tell you where the real story is. There is no
> Nazi story. That's just spin. But what's happened
> since Ike is that American politicians across the
> board, this includes the Bush family, the Clintons, ou
> current Mayor in NYC, and the pig that just left, have
> gotton bold in your face greedy and grabby and
> corrupt. Enron. Whitewater. It's not just spin. This
> is a trend. We have seen it in America before and and
> curiously enough, in England under George. 

Can't find traction here.....

......are you a 
> > Harriman  heir anxious to defend the honor of your
> > family?

For the record,  this is what you complained to MalignD 
about.........have you recovered from this outrageous slur?

 
> It's not trivial. 
> Let's say, I know this stuff from the inside out.

Share, edify.........I BEG you............without RFs.....


> > > When did Fritz Thyssen obtain financing from Brown
> > > Brothers Harriman, and its affiliate, the Union
> > > Banking?

I haven't read that he did....only that he availed himself of these 
offices to fulfill his objectives

make money off the war

keep the assets out of allied and german hands.....
there is an interesting story about how BBH and UB complimented 
eachother in these transactions........

 What month and year?

The relationship between Thyssen and BBH goes back to the work done by the US bankers on behalf of Thyssen's 
Vereinigte Stahlwerke......Peg the start of this dance around 1925, 
give or take a year or two.....

 How much financing
> > did
> > > they receive?

This line of questioning leads me to believe that you are less 
familiar with the subject than you imply.......BBH and Union weren't 
providing  FUNDs to Thyssen as far as I can glean, just the 
cover.....

 What was the structure of the
> > financing?

Elaborate on your fixation with this element, cause I can't help you 
any more....

> What am I supposed to say? I think the entire book is
> a sham. 

Great, but we  are less interested in what you think than with what 
you have reason to believe you know.....and again I beseech you to 
share it.....

btw,  that blanket statement will also cover the chapter on Poppy's 
alleged heroism as a WW2 pilot........that chapter is solid - Chester 
Mierzejewski went public around 1987.......

love,
cfa