Proposition 227 (was Re: NP Ebonics)

[jbor]

on 15/3/03 12:17 PM, S.R. Prozak at prozak at post.com wrote:

> 
> Also, genetics are part of culture, right?

No. Not in any simplistic way, no. People from different cultural
backgrounds interbreed all the time: it's in that way that gene pools within
human society change over time. And blood types, for example, are
heterogenous across all cultures. When you get a blood transfusion it makes
no difference if it's from a Jewish person or an "Aryan" or an
African-American or an Inuit, just so long as it's the right blood type.
  
>> The fact that people speak a
>> language other than English as their first or chosen language does not mean
>> that they're stupid, or that they can't learn to understand and use
>> "standard" English to communicate in formal and informal contexts. But
>> appropriate educational programs - and that includes acknowledging and
>> respecting individual and cultural identities, and cultural diversity - need
>> to be provided to ensure that they get the chance to do this.
> 
> Here we go into the world of political opinion, and I will dissent. Night
> school has always existed, and every immigrant group coming here has learned
> how to pick up English. If some groups are unwilling to do that, they should
> suffer for being less willing -or- less capable than previous immigrant
> groups.

I think your last sentence over-simplifies the issue, but you're arguing
against something which I haven't said. The point is that sometimes the
opportunities for these people to learn English, and thus to participate in
society on an equal footing with native English speakers, are not available
or are illusory to begin with, or they are deliberately taken away. That's
when it becomes discrimination.
 
>> A society which institutionalises failure and exclusion for individuals from
>> certain backgrounds - whether on the basis of religion, skin colour, wealth,
>> language ability, migration status, IQ or whatever - is far from democratic.
> 
> I'd like to exclude retards from government.
>
> That's undemocratic.
> 
> What to do?

Well, don't keep voting them in, I guess. :)

Non-English speakers aren't "retards". Nor are they blind, or disabled.

And don't forget all that hereditary insanity and disease amongst the
monarchs and aristocracy of old Europe, where the principles of social and
cultural exclusivity and separation did prevail.

best