NP "What is Fascism?"

[Otto]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ghetta Life" <ghetta_outta at hotmail.com>
To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: NP "What is Fascism?"

>
> >Otto:
> > > 2. What socialists are supporting is the freedom of every Muslim girl
> >*not*  to be forced to wear a head-scarf or a veil in public, not to be
> >forced to  marry old men because the family wants it. Neither head-scarf
> >nor veil are religious symbols but political symbols of suppression and I
> >see no reason why these repressive symbols should be allowed to enter our
> >schools.
>
> It seems to me you are arguing that the state needs to liberate certain
> children from their families in order that they not be subject to what you
> deem repressive religious or moral standards.  Do you have any evidence
that
> the girls in France wearing scarves wish to be liberated from their
culture
> and families?  Also, how do we as a society decide WHICH
religions/cultures
> are repressive and need to be suppressed?  This is a slippery slope...
>
> Ghetta
>

Sure it is ... and I'm far from being sure that the French ban is
politically wise.

There are always Muslim girls who express freely that they like the scarf,
that they regard it even as some kind of protection
from the infidel Western world -- which is almost the only thing they're
allowed to say in public so it has become an empty formula in my point of
view. I've heard it too often on TV when Muslim girls in France were being
interviewed.

I think the film "Osama" about an Afghan girl disguised as a boy in order to
be able to feed the family says enough.

I don't think that the topic is "liberating" someone from his "culture," the
topic is preserving a high standard of free speech and liberal democracy
from fundamentalist interference. This has nothing to do with religion but
with Western values from the enlightenment which are violated massively by
Islamic fundamentalism. When I think of the Muslim world in Western Europe I
have the idea of a group pressure these people are exposed to. I think it
goes without saying that this isn't in accordance with our liberal
constitutions where men and women are equal. What's a constitution if it
ends at the front door of any given private home.

I think for example of the movie «Gegen die Wand» (Against the Wall) by the
Turkish-German director Fatih Akin which is the story of a young Turkish
girl in Germany who marries an older man to escape her family.
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/kino/0,1518,grossbild-330133-286455,00.html

> Which  religions/cultures  are repressive and need to be suppressed?

We, as the German society for example have banned nazi-symbols (with good
reasons) from the public life and even in private, other nations may have
other reasons for their decisions. The USA don't have any trouble allowing
neo-fascists to spread their venom; even these people are protected by the
freedom of speech. And I don't say that is is a bad thing -- for the US!

The French seem to be the most secular country in Europe, at the same time
they have many Muslims because of their colonial past. I cannot rule out
that their decision has been made out of fear, but I accept the decision as
a decision made by a freely elected parliament -- something we won't find in
the Islamic world of today.

It's not the question of banning religions/cultures because we regard them
as dangerous but an attempt to keep them out of our schools to avoid any
religious/politicial indoctrination. Therefor I can say that I would be the
first to protest if I'd see a Christian cross in my daughter's classroom,
while I would have little trouble with a Muslim teacher with a head-scarf if
this head-scarf is only a cultural expression -- but this mostly isn't the
case and therefor German teachers may not wear openly religious/political
symbols at class -- this shall rule out the slightest possibility that an
indoctrination might happen. I don't think that a Muslim girl wearing the
scarf at a German school would cause much trouble.

I think today's elections in Iran clearly show what kind of democracy the
Mullahs have in mind. I don't think the West should repeat the mistake of
accepting & supporting repressive regimes like this as it did in the past
(the Taliban, Saddam Hussein, the Saudi-feudalists) out of short-sighted
political, strategic or economical reasons.

Otto