VLVL the Movement WAS Re: Pynchon mention re rock, paper, scissors game

[Terrance]

pynchonoid wrote:
> 
> Nothing in Bandwraith's post to disagree with.

I disagree with his idea that VL is a parody of TV. 


> _Vineland_ is clearly conscious of the Movement as it
> expressed itself at Berkeley and Columbia, and that's
> enough, contrasted with the PR3 fiasco, to establish
> the novel's basic story:  a corrupt government (from
> First Criminal Nixon at the top to so-called "rogue"
> elements like Brock Vond bottom feeding) plus the Tube
> (like the government, captive to the desires of big
> business) equals 1984 under Reagan-Bush.

Your "Bad Government PLUS Bad TV"  formula reduces the novel to
propaganda (in both the Roman Catholic and the Journalistic sense). 



> 
> Vato and Blood have received relatively little
> attention here -- and most of what has been said is
> diffult to understand because of the rage that seems
> to have informed it -- but I suggest that with them
> Pynchon also points, briefly but powerfully, to
> another very important Movement element:  the vast
> reservoir of anti-War sentiment among GIs in Vietnam
> (and more generally throughout the US Army during the
> Vietnam War era, and solidarity with their fellow
> people of color on the part of African-American
> soldiers who served in Vietnam.

It was along time ago. I was just a little kid. I can't forget it, but I
can forgive. There is no rage in what I've written. 

The problem with your reading is that it has nothing whatsoever to do
with Vineland. 
Vato & Blood provide information to the enemy. The information they
provide to the enemy is used to slaughter their fellow soldiers (not all
of them White or American). Moreover, Vato and Blood receive information
from the enemy. Based on this information, they get themselves out of
harms way, but never share this information with their fellow soldiers.
Their fellow soldiers die. Vato & Blood are in the Motor Pool. They do
business with the enemy and they do business with a guy named The
Specter. Specter is an investor. He has an arbitrage on. It has to do
with currencies and how Soldiers get paid. Vato and Blood, acting as
investment advisors to Specter, serendipitously make him rich by telling
him when to take his arbitrage off (timing is of the essence in these
derivative investments). He gets killed. Vato & Blood are bequeathed the
responsibility for a  Vietnamese girl Specter has been putting through
college. They accept their responsibility and she becomes their new
partner in Vato & Blood Towing. In Vineland, Vato & Blood work for and
with the Thanatoids. A lot, but not all  of the Thanatoids are Vietnam
Veterans. Ortho Bob is a Vietnam Vet hell bent on revenge. He's got
names. Having failed to get satisfaction via the usual channels he goes
to Takeshi and DL. Vato & Blood also go to Takeshi and DL. They provide
information about what a madhouse it was in Vietnam and how soldiers
sold information to the enemy and murdered their own officers. They
also  provide testimony about what happened to Ortho Bob. Again, the
Pattern is evident, the Parody of Cartoon and Vietnam-Buddy Sit-Com, the
Fantastic scene in the Latrine, Bat Fishermen. There is nothing in the
novel to support your reading. It's  important. I thank you for
reminding us of this historical fact, but it ain't in the book we are
reading. Pynchon doesn't say anything about it.