Contemporary Fiction

[jd]

You may very well be right.  A lot of my reasoning stems from the idea
that a lot of publishers don't seem to want to touch something that's
been previously published, even if it's just been posted on a Web page
or discussion forum.

As far as preterite writing goes, you're probably right - I guess I
kind of went off on a tangent there as far as the method of online
publishing goes, beyond the scope of answering such a question by
directing him to those links.  I like the idea of self-publishing as
an ideal, as I like the idea of blogs, I guess I'm still skeptical.  I
would likely change my tune if I saw a successful book come out of
lulu.  There is, of course, that Just a Couple of Days book I
mentioned awhile ago that appears to be self-published (not through
lulu) that I did enjoy.  Though when I bought it I didn't realize it
was self-published.

On 9/14/06, pynchonoid <pynchonoid at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- jd <wescac at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't deny that it could be a substantial
> > resource, you're right
> > about that.  It's just that without some sort of
> > editor in between the
> > writer...  well, I wouldn't want to see Vollmann
> > without any kind of
> > editor whatsoever, nor really any writer for the
> > most part.  I think
> > it's sort of like blogs in that there is quite a
> > deluge of very poor
> > material, which might be the precursor to a deluge
> > half-assed lulu
> > books (half-assed even when compared to the
> > half-assed books put out
> > by big companies today).  Even if there's a genius
> > blog out there,
> > it's very hard to find as a reader / hard for a
> > blogger to market /
> > etc and generally it will become a blip on the
> > radar, if it doesn't
> > entirely fly under it altogether.  Look at
> > DeviantART, for example.
> > Every once in awhile, if you try hard enough and
> > spend enough hours
> > plodding through it, you'll find something
> > interesting to look at.
> > More often than not it's crayon furry drawings and
> > photoshoppers
> > enthralled by the magic of the lensflare - hardly
> > (generally, not)
> > worth sifting through to find those one or two good
> > pictures.
> >
> > I feel that it's a rather grim assessment to think
> > that that's the
> > future of literature, and I hope it's not.  It's
> > hard enough to make a
> > living as a writer as it is, almost akin to winning
> > the lottery.
> > Perhaps time will change this, but what, exactly,
> > can a writer do to
> > convince someone to buy their lulu book, or even
> > simply download it
> > for a cheaper price?  What can be done to rise above
> > the
> > furry-and-lensflare crowd and the people who come to
> > the site
> > expressly for that level of art?  To, in a sense,
> > reach a "serious"
> > crowd?
>
> Marketing 101.  If you have money, you buy
> advertisements in the right places and you do the
> other things that money makes possible to promote a
> new book. If no money, you use guerilla tactics.
> Network. Write letters, make phone calls, follow-up
> emails. It's a full-time job. Some people seem to make
> it work, however.
>
> If an author's book is worth reading, the new channels
> that exist make it easier than before, imo, to get it
> in front of opinion-makers.  I believe that some big
> publishers also actively look for self-published books
> that have sold enough copies to show promise.
>
> Another  trend is for authors to get together and do
> things on the web and in the fleshworld to promote
> their works, ad hoc co-ops that can attract attention
> and make things happen with aggregated resources and
> coordinated actions.
>
> Dave said he was looking for the preterite, and I
> listed some places where ordinary people  publish or
> where they see their tastes/interests reflected in
> print.  That's where some of the good new writing is
> going to come from, imo, in addition to other places
> more traditional.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > All, of course, without the marketing budget of a
> > publishing company,
> > nor the connections that such a company will have
> > with outlets such as
> > PW, NY Times Book Review, successful authors to
> > write blurbs, etc?
> > Have PW or NYTBR ever reviewed a lulu book?  And
> > then there's the
> > bookstore / Amazon crowd who won't get the "People
> > who bought ____
> > also bought (your book)" or see your book on the
> > "new on our shelves"
> > displays.
> >
> > Think of it this way.  If we'd never heard of Thomas
> > Pynchon, and he
> > posted GR to lulu yesterday, how would we hear about
> > him even if we
> > were aware of Lulu?  Would we even bother holding
> > any hope that
> > sifting through all that fanfiction and third-rate
> > horror stories
> > would result in anything worth reading?  Would we
> > just let it slide
> > by, unnoticed?  I'd say it's quite likely.
> >
> > My argument here is regarding the current
> > incarnation of
> > self-publishing, and not necessarily what it might
> > become.  Again,
> > time may change all this.  But as it stands I think
> > the lulu /
> > deviantart correlation is apt and to help
> > e-publishing rise above it
> > might be necessary to have an intemediary to sift
> > through the slush
> > for us, an e-editor, shall we say, and then we're in
> > the same place we
> > were before.  Or, at least, we'd have to break away
> > from publishing as
> > we know it and throw people wholly into the
> > self-published market,
> > instead of having them weigh the merits based on an
> > online blurb
> > between a professionally edited book on Amazon on
> > the one hand versus
> > some no-name on a self-publishing web page like
> > Lulu.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/06, pynchonoid <pynchonoid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > --- jd <wescac at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Do you think that there's any chance in hell of
> > > > getting any sort of
> > > > readership / recognition through lulu?
> > >
> > > Yes, if you spend enough time and money to market
> > the
> > > book. I wouldn't count on lulu doing it.
> > >
> > >
> > > >I hadn't
> > > > heard of blurb.com
> > > > til your email.  But while I like the idea of
> > lulu
> > > > it seems kind of
> > > > like "giving up" almost.
> > >
> > >
> > > A real longing for legitimacy among new authors
> > out
> > > there, undeniable. Being published by an
> > established
> > > house - even better, to be discovered by an
> > editor,
> > > nurtured along into a literary lion - the romantic
> > > dream dies hard, but that's the 20th century,
> > history.
> > >  That circuit still exists and still plays a huge
> > > role, but a lot of stuff is bubbling up from
> > below,
> > > authors using the web to connect with audiences;
> > lots
> > > of junk and mediocre stuff but some gems pop up,
> > too.
> > > Look at the way a web site like Boing Boing, to
> > name
> > > one I know a little bit, helps to promote authors,
> > > especially those outside traditional circles.
> > >
> > > That's why I have  hopes that great new literary
> > work
> > > can emerge. Compared to the likes of Pynchon,
> > Roth,
> > > and a few others, the young writers seem a bit
> > weak to
> > > me so far, but what is it the theorists say, get a
> > > million monkeys typing and one of them will write
> > > Gravity's Rainbow.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Have never heard of a lulu
> > > > book being
> > > > discussed or even read.  I wish there were more
> > > > opportunities for a
> > > > wider readership in the self-published sector,
> > but
> > > > in the mean time
> > > > using it seems to rank about at the level of
> > > > fanfiction from my
> > > > perspective (but as I've said I don't have a lot
> > of
> > > > experience with
> > > > any of the books that are published through it).
> > >
> > > Each to his own, of course.  These services look
> > like
> > > an excellent and inexpensive way to publish - what
> > > happens to the book after that, I guess that's up
> > to
> > > the author.
> > >
> > > When you consider how expensive and difficult it
> > used
> > > to be to get a book published - if the author were
> > > outside the agent/editor/publisher loop - as well
> > as
> > > how difficult and expensive it used to be to
> > > self-publish or start a small press, imo these
> > > services represent a substantial resource for
> > authors.
> > >
> > > Add the capability to use the Internet to find
> > > potential readers/book purchasers, the tools at
> > least
> > > are in place for a Golden Age for authors.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On 9/14/06, pynchonoid <pynchonoid at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >the preterite stuff
> > > > >
> > > > > Comic books, graphic novels, fan fiction,
> > zines,
> > > > > reader-contributed editorial elements in
> > online
> > > > > communities, writer self-help groups,
> > > > self-published
> > > > > books at sites like Blurb.com and Lulu.com
> > (more
> > > > on
> > > > > the way, making it easy & cheap for people to
> > > > publish
> > > > > novels)...
> > > > >
> > >
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>
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