Trieste goes downhill.....

[Mark Kohut]

Janos,

I think you must be right about Trieste's cosmopolitanism at this point in time. I have always heard/read that. When I said that Trieste was "a nodal point", I was thinking it was then, as a consequence of its rich past, at its peak. But, the 'decline'--moral decline--  started when it became part of The Empire. Actual dates would be 'rough guides' to such a take on its history.

I also agree that "obvious implications" is ironic--surely I did not feel it as you did, since I want to trust "the narrator" more than I should sometimes--- but I might still suggest that it supports the notion of historical decline. Just because they are a paranoid group which mans watchtowers along the Military Frontier does not mean the history behind it is not relevant to TRPs vision. 

We know THAT about the paranoids in his fiction, it seems?

Or am I missiing ALL THE IRONY?.....in which case I don't get this part of the text.

Mark


----- Original Message ----
From: János Székely <miksaapja at gmail.com>
To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 3:17:50 AM
Subject: Re: Trieste goes downhill.....

Well I think Trieste was never as open and cosmopolitan as in Joyce's and Svevo's time. "Obvious implications for the Macedonian Question" seems to be sheer irony as there was simply no chance for "Turkish indundation" in the Adriatic region. The "dedicated cadre" of New Uskoks are full-blown paranoids. 
 

 



2008/1/23, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>: 
Yes, uphill in many important ways. BUT
 
My suggestion , however, is this:
Pynchon's vison embraces the sea and seaports.
 Pynchon's vision, of course, loves freedom--- NOT being under an Empire, especially Austro-Hungarian.
 
And Pynchon's vision does not embrace railways and coal. Nor anything Austrian.
 
I suggest that for Pynchon, Trieste used to be a good place, historically, full of an "anarchic" mix of peoples, trading
and travelling on the seas, living Stateless, so to speak...
 
I suggest that Cyprian on the docks is working at a nodal point in Trieste's
history....

 
----- Original Message ----
From: János Székely < miksaapja at gmail.com>
To: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
Cc: pynchon -l < pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 1:00:48 PM
Subject: Re: Trieste goes downhill.....

Uphill, rather. 
Trieste wilingly sought the Habsburgs' protection in the 14th century, and from then on, it benefited from being Austria's only major seaport, especially with the decilne of Venice as a political and economic power. As for autonomy, it was a Free Imperial City until the Empire existed. 


2008/1/22, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>: 
Michael Bailey wrote:
 
"Trieste - on the back of the top (northeast) of the boot of Italy ,
on the border of Slovenia.  James Joyce was teaching English
there from 1904-1915, give or take, off and on... 
port, crossroads, cultural centre, part of the Austro-Hungarian 
Empire until WWI
 
---Cyprian is monitoring the docks"
 
"Trieste - on the back of the top (northeast) of the boot of Italy,

The city's role as the principal Austrian commercial port and shipbuilding center was later emphasized by the foundation of the Austrian Lloyd merchant shipping line in 1836, whose headquarters stood at the corner of the Piazza Grande and Sanita. By 1913 Austrian Lloyd had a fleet of 62 ships comprising a total of 236,000 tons. [1]
The modern Austro-Hungarian Navy also used Trieste's shipbuilding facilities and as a base. The construction of the first major trunk railway in the Empire, the Vienna-Trieste Austrian Southern Railway, was completed in 1857, a valuable asset for trade and the supply of coal."
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Trieste, virtually autonomous politically until the 17th Century............devolves, descends, to this........................................
 
 



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