atdtda: 31 - pg 883

Fri May 2 11:35:46 CDT 2008

Bekah focused:
  883. 16  "as the two young men, one who had never imagined the other, one who had gone beyond imagining and now only hoped that nothing would turn out to be too 'real,'" 

  ** Reef had never imagined Cyprian and Cyprian is hoping that it's not too "real."      -  why not?   Or is Reef both guys - never imagining and also now going further and hoping it's not "too real."?    -  it doesn't say the "other" one -  Reef could be both. 

  too real means felt?..as in "emotionally involved'...."love"??......Reef never imagined the other; Cyprian hoped it wasn't "real"??

Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
  And moving right along - Reef is having Cyprian's way with him.   

  883. 6  Cyprian's undies are made of Venetian lace from Melville & Ziffer   ?  are these Italian providers? 
  Melville is a Scottish or Irish name
  Ziffer is a Jewish name - Spain, Poland, Turkey,  now Israel
    Melville & Ziffer Lace Hand Fan Mother of Pearl Handle ...  (no idea)
  http://www.embroiderycentre.it/cat069.htm    (so imagine Cyprian's panties made of this)

  **Btw,  this is the infamous section which earned Pynchon a place on the short list for "Bad Sex Award" from the Guardian: 
  http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,,1959812,00.html

  ***********

  883.15 -    "From then..." 

  **  Easter Sunday I guess - 

  883.15   "... till Ascension Day..."  
  **  According to Acts 1:9-12  Ascension Day is 40 days from Easter Sunday - 
    Easter in 1909 was on April 11 
  http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/freq3.html

  So Ascension Day would have been May 21. 

  883.15  - "... the day Venice got remarried each year to the sea..."  
  "On Ascension day Venice celebrates the symbolic wedding to the sea: to the Serenissima it was the token of its rule on the Adriatic. This feast dates back to the conquest of Dalmatia by the Doge Pietro Orseolo II about the year one thousand and it probably found its ritual defintive form only later, at the time of the Doge Sebastiano Ziani, when the Pope made a donation of the symbolic ring to the Doge for his service to the Church. The Doge, the clergy, and the dignitaries led the procession on Bucintoro, the boat of the State: the patriarch blessed the sea with holy water and the Doge threw the ring into the sea saying this sentence: "As a token of eternal rule we marry you, oh sea"
  http://www.veniceincoming.com/manfe.html

  **********

  883. 16  "as the two young men, one who had never imagined the other, one who had gone beyond imagining and now only hoped that nothing would turn out to be too 'real,'" 

  ** Reef had never imagined Cyprian and Cyprian is hoping that it's not too "real."      -  why not?   Or is Reef both guys - never imagining and also now going further and hoping it's not "too real."?    -  it doesn't say the "other" one -  Reef could be both. 

  ******** 

  883. 18    Reef and Cyprian "made firm the third connection in their triad..."   

  Yup - but will they make the famous Ménage à trois list?   - -    http://www.polyamory.org.nz/fame.htm
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ménage_à_trois

  Granted, this trio has more going for it than the simple married couple and lover,  but they are not a singularity - think Sartre, de Bouvier, Lamblin  or some others

******** 

  883.19 - "wondering how close to 'love' any of this might be venturing."   

  *  Is  "varieties of loving experience"  a theme?  Who all is close to "love" here? -   Yashmeen loves Cyprian according to Reef and Yashmeen loves Reef according to Cyprian.   Both Cyprian and Reef love Yashmeen  -  as well as each other,   according to the narrator.   

    Reef's voice continues to be that of a US Westerner and Cyprian's of a European gad-fly (I guess he temporarily  regresses from his desire to be humiliated ).   After the actual (kind of trite, imo) lace-undies-ripper part, the dialogue is pretty  interesting,  imo. 

  ******** 
  883. 34 - Cyprian -  "And ... the two of you ..." managing to raise both eyebrows in what he hoped Reef would read as sympathy."   
  ** Cyprian back in masochistic role? 

  ******** 
  883. 38    Yashmeen acknowledges that Reef is on holiday - she is  saying that their relationships is not a permanent thing.  

  Bekah

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