Rating ATD

[John Bailey]

I honestly can't rank Pynchon's novels.

I enjoy Vineland the most; think GR the most "important", complex,
sophisticated; find ATD the most readable and mature; and somehow have never
quite clicked with M&D. I'd be happy never to read COL49 again, but that's
because I've been over it so many times and think it's so much lighter than
the others. And V. is closest to my heart, since it was where I first began
to 'get' Pynchon.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Bekah <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Well,  as it turns out I'm due for a rereading of GR (by Christmas for
> another group which has bravely decided to take it on).   So my rankings may
> change over the next few months.
>
> Anyway,  I'd not fault ATD for a lack of central protagonist(s).   Yes,  it
> might have been interesting if OBA had gone with  good guy vs evil guy here
> but I think that might have been a tad simplistic for this one.  And yet
> that's part of what a goodly chunk of the book is about and I think that's
> how the two would have had to come down.  Perhaps.   As it is,  we have the
> dual protagonist bifurcated into 4 - the Webb boys vs the multi-faceted Vibe
> family.
>
> I think the Chums were brilliant - they kept me mindful that it's all
> fiction and to stay loose in the reading - above it all.
>
> Anyway,  I'd still rank M&D a shade of an eyelash higher than ATD so it's:
>
> M&D
> ATD
> TCoL49
> Vineland
> GR
> Slow Learner
> (never read V.)
>
> As I said, this is open to revision what with my upcoming reread of GR
> because, who knows,  I may enjoy it and it could conceivably rise in status
> above Vineland.
>
> Bekah
>
>
>
> On Sep 8, 2008, at 1:06 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>  For most of us on the list (I think), GR is Pynchon's masterpiece, setting
>> the bar impossibly high for anything else he's written or will ever write to
>> surpass it.  But I know there are quite a few people here who prefer other
>> of his books (might Bekah, Robin, and Mike Bailey be included?  Forgive me
>> if I'm wrong).  I'd be particularly interested in what those people have to
>> say about ATD -- how it stacks up against TRP's other books.
>>
>> For me, ATD's principle flaw was the lack of a single or at least dual
>> protagonist.  I think I understand why Pynchon made this choice.  A book
>> that has the chaos of WWI, anarchy, modernity, etc. at its core is too big
>> for a single viewpoint.  On the other hand, there's a significant focus on
>> duality, which could have provided a context for a dual protagonist.  Using
>> the Chums of Chance as a kind of group protagonist might be intellectually
>> interesting, but it's emotionally flat.  The point of a protagonist is to
>> give us an emotional, visceral connection to the story.  Slothrop isn't
>> present in much of GR, but he still provides an emotional thread through the
>> whole book.  Oedipa's present throughout COL49, and we share her paranoia
>> throughout.  M&D and V (Stencil/Profane) have dual protagonists.  That they
>> interact weakly in V makes that book less emotionally satisfying (and TRP's
>> books are emotional.  If they were just cerebral exercises, I don't think
>> we'd all be here obse!
>>  ssing over him).  Zoyd seems to be the protagonist of Vineland (in that
>> we meet him first), but, unlike Slothrop or Oedipa, its not about his quest,
>> which weakens both his protagonist status and the book as a whole.
>>
>> The group read gave me a lot of new insights into ATD and made me
>> appreciate the book much more.  But it didn't alter my estimation of how it
>> ranks with TRP's other novels:
>>
>> 1. GR
>> 2. V(the young Pynchon) tied with M&D (the mature Pynchon)
>> 3. COL49
>> 4. ATD
>> 5. Vineland
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>
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