Rating ATD

[Mark Kohut]

I guess my first response to this would be "Hang 'hanging together'"....
"I'll take misshapen richness anytime".

My second thought is that this is probably correct......good discussion possible on overarching coherence vs...........Something Else.

And, third, I think AtD might be three strands of books stitched together
like I sew.........as the Sales say "Irregulars".........

MK 


--- On Mon, 9/8/08, kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> From: kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: Rating ATD
> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 4:55 PM
> I agree that ATD is a life's work on everything he's
> observed, thought and felt.  But this is both the book's
> strength and weakness.  Strength in that it's a
> fascinating, encyclopedia of things that enthrall a great
> mind.  Weakness in that it feels like the hurried effort of
> an older writer (though younger than McCain!) to get
> everything down on paper before it's too late.  As such,
> it doesn't hold together as an organic whole.  A number
> of people (p-listers, reviewers -- can't remember) have
> said that ATD seems to be two books (the Traverse saga and
> the Iceland Spar novel?) crammed into one (large) volume.
> 
> Laura
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >Sent: Sep 8, 2008 4:44 PM
> >To: kelber at mindspring.com
> >Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >Subject: Re: Rating ATD
> >
> >
> >I have been v. busy lately to take up Laura's nice
> request to sum up
> >AtD...I did make some notes on a bus trip (which I hope
> i can find).
> >
> >But, in short, my opinion is that AtD is more ambitious
> than anything else
> >TRP has written---up there with the most ambitious
> books ever....
> >
> >HERE COMES EVERYTHING (play on Joyce's HERE COMES
> EVERYBODY)...a lifetime
> >of all he has observed, thought and felt. 
> >
> >Laughably full of flaws, at times, it is a deeper,
> richer, fuller book than
> >even the intensely great "Gravity's
> Rainbow". And the wonderful "Mason &
> Dixon".   
> >
> >
> >A monstrous misshapen--'and who should he run into
> but'--- poem-like structure full of lyricism worth
> singing and some of the most 
> >overarching metaphoric ideas---Iceland Spar; time;
> maths---any writer has
> >ever put down.    
> >
> >
> >
> >--- On Mon, 9/8/08, kelber at mindspring.com
> <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: kelber at mindspring.com
> <kelber at mindspring.com>
> >> Subject: Rating ATD
> >> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >> Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 4:06 PM
> >> For most of us on the list (I think), GR is
> Pynchon's
> >> masterpiece, setting the bar impossibly high for
> anything
> >> else he's written or will ever write to
> surpass it.  But
> >> I know there are quite a few people here who
> prefer other of
> >> his books (might Bekah, Robin, and Mike Bailey be
> included? 
> >> Forgive me if I'm wrong).  I'd be
> particularly
> >> interested in what those people have to say about
> ATD -- how
> >> it stacks up against TRP's other books.
> >> 
> >> For me, ATD's principle flaw was the lack of a
> single
> >> or at least dual protagonist.  I think I
> understand why
> >> Pynchon made this choice.  A book that has the
> chaos of WWI,
> >> anarchy, modernity, etc. at its core is too big
> for a single
> >> viewpoint.  On the other hand, there's a
> significant
> >> focus on duality, which could have provided a
> context for a
> >> dual protagonist.  Using the Chums of Chance as a
> kind of
> >> group protagonist might be intellectually
> interesting, but
> >> it's emotionally flat.  The point of a
> protagonist is to
> >> give us an emotional, visceral connection to the
> story. 
> >> Slothrop isn't present in much of GR, but he
> still
> >> provides an emotional thread through the whole
> book. 
> >> Oedipa's present throughout COL49, and we
> share her
> >> paranoia throughout.  M&D and V
> (Stencil/Profane) have
> >> dual protagonists.  That they interact weakly in V
> makes
> >> that book less emotionally satisfying (and
> TRP's books
> >> are emotional.  If they were just cerebral
> exercises, I
> >> don't think we'd all be here obse!
> >>  ssing over him).  Zoyd seems to be the
> protagonist of
> >> Vineland (in that we meet him first), but, unlike
> Slothrop
> >> or Oedipa, its not about his quest, which weakens
> both his
> >> protagonist status and the book as a whole.
> >> 
> >> The group read gave me a lot of new insights into
> ATD and
> >> made me appreciate the book much more.  But it
> didn't
> >> alter my estimation of how it ranks with TRP's
> other
> >> novels:
> >> 
> >> 1. GR
> >> 2. V(the young Pynchon) tied with M&D (the
> mature
> >> Pynchon)
> >> 3. COL49
> >> 4. ATD
> >> 5. Vineland
> >> 
> >> Laura
> >
> >
> >