The Nobel Prize for War 2009 goes to ...

[Joseph Tracy]

On Dec 8, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Otto wrote:

> 2009/12/8 Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de>:
>>
>> Minister Jung --- "a pawn"??
>>
>
> Ok, maybe he was more of a rook but the other two ones who had to go
> before him were pawns. It didn't work out so the former Secretary of
> Defense had to go.
>
>>
>> (I always love it when people who haven't got the faintest idea  
>> about the
>> game think they have to use chess metaphors ...)
>>
>
> Well, the term "Bauernopfer" is widely used in other contexts.
>
>>
>> And no, it's NOT the Afghan people's choice.
>>
>
> I don't believe that a revolution imposed from outside can be
> successful. After 9/11 the West went there and smashed to pieces what
> had been left after more than twenty years of war
a war which we sponsored by supporting what are essentially the  
Taliban and the crop of militant Islamic madrasas.
> and so I think that
> there is an obligation to put those people in a position where they at
> least have a chance to govern themselves. This is the premise under
> which we, the Germans, are there.
The question is how to do it and should this be converted to a  
peacekeeping mission instead of playing to politicized  
fearmongering.  We are currently stuck with taking sides in a civil  
war and justifying rather than acting to correct government  
corruption. We can't even compel a fair election where people are  
unafraid to vote.
>
> The trick to sell this war to the people was to call it not a war but
> "nation building". If this is not the true purpose it's illegal.
Obama said it isn't nation building
> And if the deadline isn't meant seriously it would be bad but I  
> think that
> Obama is serious about it. Does anybody really believe the guy is
> happy about leading those two wars?
He is in a tough spot but he wanted the job, and it doesn't matter  
what he wants to do or likes or is happy about, but whether he has  
the courage to lead. I have no stomach for him spending the wages of  
the coming generations on bankers and wars when this generation  
refuses to pay their own way.

The reason he has lost so much popular support in the US is that he  
starts every fight from an adulterated position and proceeds to work  
backwards until nothing of any meaning is on the table. That is what  
is happening in Afghanistan too.

One more thing. I have a mixed race daughter who is a successful  
teacher, and now science curriculum director for a school district.  
For me this has nothing to do with race, and a lot to do with the  
corporate control of both major parties. It is this internal  
corruption that is most in need of correction in the US and is the  
cause for the long term global military strategies that are wreaking  
havoc  in the Middle East, Columbia, Haiti, the Congo etc.

Otto
nothing personal in any of this. Your arguments are reasonable and  
well stated and I am prone to self indulgent pissiness over current  
politics.  I guess I see the p-List as a place where that is indulged.