Bernadine Dohrn

[Joseph Tracy]

Sure. I don't admire the tactics in terms of human cost , but   
especially for those people subject to violence and oppression of the  
American empire this was hard not to admire. 20 men armed with  
utility knives provoked a war that helped bankrupt the western  
world.  It is like a David and Goliath story for some.   
Unfortunately, the goals and human costs are as bad as the goals and  
costs of the Empire of the elect.

Dohrn and the weather people were careful not to kill people and did  
not. That is a powerful difference.

   Agree that the good anarchist/bad terrorist dichotomy is a  
recurrent theme and is strong in VL too. Pynchon allows for self  
defense  but both in his fiction and in the world  the victims of  
aggressive violence are usually too stunned and unprepared for a  
violent fight  to effectively use self defense. Revenge and  
assassination gets into more slippery territory and P delves into the  
Karmic consequences.  He obviously admires outlaws who defend their  
own territories, tribes , rights  etc.

Most people tune our outlaw affiliation to pretty safe boundaries. I  
think of the kid who bid on the oil leases and fucked up the Bushie  
land rape plans big time. That was gutsy and creative. How many  
opportunities like that are there for brave hearts?

We are watching the black hole  at the center of capitalism/uber-us- 
ism sucking up the Mcmalleconomy.  What will happen now to all those  
wonderful thanatoid retirement plans? Things are getting real  
postmodern now, like humpty fucking dumpty.



On Feb 2, 2009, at 1:07 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:

> If we can admire Dohrn (I admire her passion and commitment, if not  
> her tactics and results), then doesn't this lead to an at least  
> theoretical understanding of why people around the world might  
> admire the suicide squad of 9-11?  I still think this good  
> anarchist/bad terrorist dichotomy is some of what Pynchon was  
> exploring in ATD.
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> Sent: Feb 2, 2009 2:26 AM
>> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>> Subject: Re: Bernadine Dohrn
>>
>> I can't hate Frenesi either, but I respect Dohrn more than any FBI
>> snitches. After all Frenesi is not following her conscience and
>> Dohrn  arguably was.
>> The underlying issue with Dohrn is that she was for violent
>> revolution against an empire with a dark side  much the same as
>> European Fascism. To me her tactics are futile. Did the American
>> revolution end colonialism? Did the war against Fascism end fascism?
>> Still it is hard to renounce all bombings.  Most still favor some.
>> Who would Jesus bomb?
>>
>> My house has a mortgage and may still when I die or move. Most of the
>> world is owned by a very few and it is hard to know how to fight
>> them. I find myself far more disgusted by the happy blather of the
>> first fighter pilots to drop bombs on Iraq than by Dohrn. To me
>> Frenesi and the youthful Dohrn and the Pilots are all too easily
>> seduced by violence, but who isn't?
>> On Feb 2, 2009, at 12:57 AM, rich wrote:
>>
>>> sure someone mentioned this already
>>>
>>> in some ways to me this is what Frenesi resembles in my minds eye:
>>>
>>> www.pbs.org/.../images/film_bernadine.jpg or
>>> images.usatoday.com/.../2005/08/15/dohrn-mug.jpg
>>>
>>> interesting woman--hard to fault the anti-war sentiment of 60s
>>> radicals though the painful folly of its youthful blather is rather
>>> sad and the smugness unattractive
>>>
>>> how did the orgies in the back of vans on the way to detroit or
>>> somewheres roaring down the highway become bombings?
>>> such bravery and anger wasted and misdirected
>>>
>>> all became the pointless 70s
>>> but what the fuck do I know
>>>
>>> i just can't hate Frenesi I guess is what I'm saying
>>