VL-IV: Chap7- Floozy with an Uzi

[Bekah]

Yes,  I was seriously put off by what I perceived as sexism in GR.   
It inhibited my my first time reading of the book.   But my second  
reading a few months ago was much easier and although there were  
still some places where I was uncomfortable (yes, Slothrop with  
Bianca for one but ... ).   In this last reading I saw more to  
appreciate in the roles of the women,  Geli and Katje particularly.    
(TPR acknowledges his early sexism and other things in the intro to  
Slow Learner but he says it was in the air of the times. - I was  
there,  I  agree.)

Anyway,  Against the Day helped to lighten me up on the subject.    
And times have changed from the GR / 1974 /  Playboy heyday which I  
still think shows through in GR but it's okay - historical kind of.    
There's a lot more freedom now and girls,  (just like guys),  "...   
just wanna have fun."   Heavy old-fashioned feminism sometimes  
precluded the fun side of physical.  Sometimes fun comes with an  
oozie.  -  Cool.

Bekah




On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:04 AM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:

> Hey, no one should feel too intimidated to express opinions about  
> feminism.  We all live in a sexist, racist, capitalist society,  
> which makes us all sexist, racist and capitalist.  My own mother  
> was a staunch feminist, Bella Abzug's speechwriter and adviser, but  
> always had dinner waiting for my father, who sat at the head of the  
> table, and constantly nagged me to wear makeup.  I LIKE Seven of  
> Nine, probably have the hots for her in some repressed lesbian  
> way.  I don't think Floozy with an Uzi is Pynchon being sexist, I  
> think it's him commenting on sexism.  I'm certainly not going to  
> attack anyone who disagrees with me.  For all I know, FwaU is a  
> cigar just being a cigar.  Pynchon enjoys writing songs for their  
> own sake, but I think he's making cultural points when he inserts  
> them in his novels.
>
> Re GR: it's my all-time favorite novel.  I think maybe it was Bekah  
> (correct me if I'm wrong) who said she was put off by some of the  
> sexism in it.  The Slothrop-Bianca scenes are disturbing.
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>
>> point taken...
>>
>> I hope you know that I think that I share many of your sensibilities.
>> Not in a self-backpatting way - it may be impossible for a male to
>> attain authentic feminist viewpoints - but I have a strong desire to
>> ally with all moderate and much extreme feminism.
>>
>> I don't think Pynchon is depicting anything objectionable, or
>> objectionably...actually he's somewhat of a cultural arbiter for me,
>> so it's fairly urgent for me to air my reasoning because I place very
>> high importance on choosing the best exemplars in cultural matters.
>> I'm more than willing to change my stance on Pynchon, feminism or
>> other matters when confronted with convincing arguments to the
>> contrary, and to take up the best viewpoints with enthusiasm.
>>
>> I remember you posted that GR was rather a turnoff for you due to
>> sexist preconceptions that seemed implicit in the text, and the
>> reasons you cited seemed to hold some validity, though I wasn't moved
>> at the time to dispute them or examine them more thoroughly.
>>
>> I also remember you stating that you thought the welter of characters
>> created confusion in Vineland.  Since I'm a lot more emotionally
>> invested in Vineland, I am very interested in both feminist
>> considerations and character development as seen in Vineland and hope
>> that you will elaborate as much as possible so as to help me, and
>> quite possibly others on the list, to think these matters through.
>>
>> (of the pix, 3 of 4 including 7 of 9, didn't speak to me, but I must
>> admit that Sarah Connor pic was rather fetching.  She'd be prettier
>> without the gun, tho...)
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:05 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Hi there, Jael ... uh, what are you wearing?
>>>
>>> http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/Lynda-Carter--- 
>>> Wonder-Woman-Photograph-C10101726.jpg
>>>
>>> http://innergeekdom.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/sarah-connor.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.impawards.com/2001/posters/lara_croft_tomb_raider.jpg
>>>
>>> http://www.1956packardpanther.com/SevenOfNineJeriRyan.jpg
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> the violent femme has a long provenance: what about Jael in the  
>>>> Bible,
>>>> who nailed somebody's head to the floor? There is a certain
>>>> fascination there, but I'm not going to claim it's feminist, nor  
>>>> is it
>>>> very sexy.
>>>>
>>>> But anyway...
>>>> Pynchon's one of the good guys.  For a little context, let's wonder
>>>> what DL is doing at the wedding in the first place.  It's not  
>>>> too much
>>>> of a stretch to interpolate there's a business friendship between
>>>> Ralph Sr and DL, with the casual ass-grab punished easily (and with
>>>> impunity) - he admires her for her skills.  as we shall see.  So
>>>> more'n likely she's an invited guest, and from RW's asking about  
>>>> his
>>>> whereabouts, so was Takeshi - he's elsewhere engaged in their
>>>> business, whatever that is, but obviously it isn't congruent with
>>>> Wayvone Family business or he'd be there.
>>>> She is like Strider at the inn in the Lord of the Rings.  She  
>>>> may have
>>>> a bodacious car, but like Aragorn's sword, she's earned it and  
>>>> needs
>>>> it for her work.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> --
>> http://www.powells.com/biblio/9781593762131?&PID=27627
>> Get Your War On!
>