VL-IV: Chap7- Floozy with an Uzi

Sat Jan 17 18:26:37 CST 2009

"Other things:" he also calls himself a racist and a proto-fascist.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bekah" <Bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
To: <kelber at mindspring.com>
Cc: <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: VL-IV: Chap7- Floozy with an Uzi

> Yes,  I was seriously put off by what I perceived as sexism in GR.
> It inhibited my my first time reading of the book.   But my second
> reading a few months ago was much easier and although there were
> still some places where I was uncomfortable (yes, Slothrop with
> Bianca for one but ... ).   In this last reading I saw more to
> appreciate in the roles of the women,  Geli and Katje particularly.
> (TPR acknowledges his early sexism and other things in the intro to
> Slow Learner but he says it was in the air of the times. - I was
> there,  I  agree.)
>
> Anyway,  Against the Day helped to lighten me up on the subject.
> And times have changed from the GR / 1974 /  Playboy heyday which I
> still think shows through in GR but it's okay - historical kind of.
> There's a lot more freedom now and girls,  (just like guys),  "...
> just wanna have fun."   Heavy old-fashioned feminism sometimes
> precluded the fun side of physical.  Sometimes fun comes with an
> oozie.  -  Cool.
>
> Bekah
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:04 AM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> Hey, no one should feel too intimidated to express opinions about
>> feminism.  We all live in a sexist, racist, capitalist society,
>> which makes us all sexist, racist and capitalist.  My own mother
>> was a staunch feminist, Bella Abzug's speechwriter and adviser, but
>> always had dinner waiting for my father, who sat at the head of the
>> table, and constantly nagged me to wear makeup.  I LIKE Seven of
>> Nine, probably have the hots for her in some repressed lesbian
>> way.  I don't think Floozy with an Uzi is Pynchon being sexist, I
>> think it's him commenting on sexism.  I'm certainly not going to
>> attack anyone who disagrees with me.  For all I know, FwaU is a
>> cigar just being a cigar.  Pynchon enjoys writing songs for their
>> own sake, but I think he's making cultural points when he inserts
>> them in his novels.
>>
>> Re GR: it's my all-time favorite novel.  I think maybe it was Bekah
>> (correct me if I'm wrong) who said she was put off by some of the
>> sexism in it.  The Slothrop-Bianca scenes are disturbing.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> point taken...
>>>
>>> I hope you know that I think that I share many of your sensibilities.
>>> Not in a self-backpatting way - it may be impossible for a male to
>>> attain authentic feminist viewpoints - but I have a strong desire to
>>> ally with all moderate and much extreme feminism.
>>>
>>> I don't think Pynchon is depicting anything objectionable, or
>>> objectionably...actually he's somewhat of a cultural arbiter for me,
>>> so it's fairly urgent for me to air my reasoning because I place very
>>> high importance on choosing the best exemplars in cultural matters.
>>> I'm more than willing to change my stance on Pynchon, feminism or
>>> other matters when confronted with convincing arguments to the
>>> contrary, and to take up the best viewpoints with enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> I remember you posted that GR was rather a turnoff for you due to
>>> sexist preconceptions that seemed implicit in the text, and the
>>> reasons you cited seemed to hold some validity, though I wasn't moved
>>> at the time to dispute them or examine them more thoroughly.
>>>
>>> I also remember you stating that you thought the welter of characters
>>> created confusion in Vineland.  Since I'm a lot more emotionally
>>> invested in Vineland, I am very interested in both feminist
>>> considerations and character development as seen in Vineland and hope
>>> that you will elaborate as much as possible so as to help me, and
>>> quite possibly others on the list, to think these matters through.
>>>
>>> (of the pix, 3 of 4 including 7 of 9, didn't speak to me, but I must
>>> admit that Sarah Connor pic was rather fetching.  She'd be prettier
>>> without the gun, tho...)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:05 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi there, Jael ... uh, what are you wearing?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/Lynda-Carter--- 
>>>> Wonder-Woman-Photograph-C10101726.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://innergeekdom.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/sarah-connor.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.impawards.com/2001/posters/lara_croft_tomb_raider.jpg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.1956packardpanther.com/SevenOfNineJeriRyan.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Michael Bailey <michael.lee.bailey at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>> the violent femme has a long provenance: what about Jael in the
>>>>> Bible,
>>>>> who nailed somebody's head to the floor? There is a certain
>>>>> fascination there, but I'm not going to claim it's feminist, nor
>>>>> is it
>>>>> very sexy.
>>>>>
>>>>> But anyway...
>>>>> Pynchon's one of the good guys.  For a little context, let's wonder
>>>>> what DL is doing at the wedding in the first place.  It's not
>>>>> too much
>>>>> of a stretch to interpolate there's a business friendship between
>>>>> Ralph Sr and DL, with the casual ass-grab punished easily (and with
>>>>> impunity) - he admires her for her skills.  as we shall see.  So
>>>>> more'n likely she's an invited guest, and from RW's asking about
>>>>> his
>>>>> whereabouts, so was Takeshi - he's elsewhere engaged in their
>>>>> business, whatever that is, but obviously it isn't congruent with
>>>>> Wayvone Family business or he'd be there.
>>>>> She is like Strider at the inn in the Lord of the Rings.  She
>>>>> may have
>>>>> a bodacious car, but like Aragorn's sword, she's earned it and
>>>>> needs
>>>>> it for her work.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> --
>>> http://www.powells.com/biblio/9781593762131?&PID=27627
>>> Get Your War On!
>>
>
>

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