Vond /charm

[Richard Ryan]

Nice Ian and Mark - a pithy analysis of Frenesi's core character dynamic and flaw.

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Vond /charm
> To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 1:06 PM
> 
> Jung below combined with Pynchon's very words on
> charisma---
> he distrusts it and thinks we human beings should "not
> follow leaders,
> and watch the parking meters"---B. dylan---is very
> pertinent.
> 
> Frenesi is taken with Vond...she does not know herself--her
> past, that part
> of human beings connected to all of humanity through their
> children, I 
> suggest.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> To: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
> Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 1:40:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Hitchens/ Rush/ Milosevic/Adolph/ Bush/ Vond
> ?charm?
> 
> I'd like to point toward Jung's discussion of "The
> Phenomenology of
> Spirit in Fairytales" in The Archetypes and the Collective
> Unconscious.  One thing he mentions is failure of
> self-knowledge in
> the individual that makes her (or him) particularly
> susceptible to the
> seduction of participation in the impetus of mass
> movements.  It is a
> very readable essay and I think it is especially pertinent
> here and to
> OBA's work in general.
> 
> -i
> 
> On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> wrote:
> > I wonder if we could turn this conversation for a
> round or 2  anyway to
> > Sasha's premise about the charm of fascists.
> >
> > This is kind of awful but do those of us who despise
> fascism miss something
> > about the phenomena by focusing on the monstrous
> violence  of the fascist
> > and the question of what is the proper military or
> geopolitical response and
> > missing the twinkle in his eye  earlier in his career
> that makes his success
> > possible.
> >
> > Is there a cultural response that  can heal  this
>  communicable disease at
> > the pre-pubescent  ambitious charm stage?
> >
> 
> 
>       
> 
>