IVIV (12): 195-197

[Mark Kohut]

Picking up on Joseph's associative linking of photos with text in TRPs work
I want to jump in with these related obs: yes, there are deep strands of being against 'text' throughout all the words [text] of his work. Reductionsists might ask if he therefore "means" it........??

How can he write a lifetime's worth of oftenf-long novels and be 'against text"? [When they have you asking the wrong questions, etc....]

But, one purpose of this in his fiction, I would suggest, is to try to get to, to show insight into---WHATEVER IN THE REAL WORLD---before it is turned into text. In Against the Day it is used to explore religious feelings and even some origins of certain traditions..............  

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> Subject: Re: IVIV (12): 195-197
> To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 1:05 AM
> 
> On Oct 31, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> 
> > Nope....gonna continue being a contrarian here.
> (Although too busy at the moment to give anything but the
> short obs and argument)
> > 
> > Yes, P's subtlety opens into great resonant
> ambiguites...we do/are exploring them.
> > 
> > But, like a major poet with his tropes and images, he
> is full of symbols/images, etc. used
> > in very non-ambiguous ways. Very Manichean in use (as
> symbols) which feed that ambiguity as we determine who, what
> and why they are being used by and for.
> > 
> > Simplistic examples: BAD: angles, esp right-angles;
> barb-wire; crystals; iron, steel, railroads, North,
> cobblestones, und so weiter.
> > 
> > Good: Bananas, Gardens, courtyards, water, beaches,
> purple (and many other bright colors); songs, Venice, und so
> weiter.
> > 
> > I suggest photos almost always fall under BAD. From
> Morris Teflon trying to photograph Benny in THE ACT thru
> that scantily-clad woman running from the guy with the
> camera early in AtD---a comment on what has happened to
> Emerson's Nature, as one resonance---she is running BECAUSE
> he has a camera, I say.....she wanted lovemaking not 'shot',
> so to speak.
> > 
> > I suggest that 24fps ends badly because in TRPs
> still-savage satire, 24fps, with the self-indicted Frenesi,
> was misconceived from the start.
> > 
> > The Pequod is wrecked cause Ahab's 'quest' is
> misconceived. Same kind of thing, a bit lower-scale, here.
> > 
> > And, I think Pynchon shows, through what happens to
> Merle and Dally---
> > Cf. the distancing, caught in that final so-poignant
> attempt at communication....Merle at Candlebrow U?---a
> satirization fer sure, yes?
> > I suggest that P is always sayin' in AtD that what
> Merle has done with silver "should not" have been done---for
> his vision; not, of course, as a proscription within
> history.
> > 
> > In most fiction we easily distinguish between
> characters' intentions and the author's overarching
> vision...........are we doing it enough here (in regard to
> photography, even maybe technology in general?). We know a
> good bit about how Pynchon feels about certain technological
> "achievements"----
> > and I will bring up in my support all those who see
> Against the Day as a massive work about how modernity has
> failed. Almost totally. Modernity as the sociologists define
> it---and place it from @1880 to the present, the time of AtD
> and the time when most "modern" technology began. (Cf. all
> the parallels between the computer and the internet with
> THAT time period, just for example)
> > 
> > I am always saying there is much less ambiguity in P's
> vision of technology than many others say.
> > 
> > I think there is more ambiguity in his characters than
> others like Wood and Kakutani say.
> 
> 
> Good subtle distinctions. I am  tending to agree with
> your concluding statements.  I think Merle is a good
> example, among many, who Pynchon clearly is very sympathetic
> and respectful to at the same time he questions the value of
> his  pursuits. And if Pynchon is in such adamant
> disagreement with the idea of measuring advancement by
> technology , it is a disagreement that is impressive in
> being at odds with his own interests in rocketry and
> physics. Merle, like the real Tesla,  is not really
> motivated by commerce or money and is protective of what he
> has invented. But Merle's will to control his inventions
> seems doomed.  Tesla dreamed of cheap power for all
> that would end resource wars, but the forces that shape that
> use of technology are more powerful than the most
> seemingly  liberating technology.  I think Merle
> exemplifies the dual personal sympathies of Pynchon.
> Kindness , nonviolent concern for justice , vulnerability,
> combined with artistic tinkering of the highest order.
> 
> The whole idea of taking a photo and deriving a bigger
> picture of the context of the photo is much like Pynchon
> taking history and giving it human context. His mistrust for
> photography extends into a mistrust for text. He
> deliberately subverts the emergence or control of a clear
> authoritative voice, preferring a more  Zen Koan-like
> use of story and history, myth and
> wordplay.   His sense of mistrust for both
> text and photography  is based on respect for the power
> of these technologies. Imaging and labeling and falsely
> presenting history or any story from a godlike POV leads to
> a false sense of ownership and control and is  liable
> to have the same horrific effects as the Bible.  Why do
> people want to see a photo of Pynchon or watch him on TV
> except to give themselves a sense of control  over a
> force they don't understand. Genius of any kind is dangerous
> as well as wonderful. Who can imagine a more peaceable and
> gentle soul than Albert Einstein, he uses his imagination to
> reach a new  understanding of light, matter and energy
> and becomes the father of the nuclear age because he
> publishes the math.
> 
> Crazy Horse also avoided being photographed. To stand in
> opposition to the Mad Juggernaut God of Progress requires
> the ability to keep your deepest wild spirit free and out of
> reach of the thing you oppose.
> 
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> > 
> > --- On Sat, 10/31/09, John Carvill <johncarvill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: John Carvill <johncarvill at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: IVIV (12): 195-197
> >> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >> Cc: kelber at mindspring.com
> >> Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 5:47 AM
> >>> Photos are bad in the wrong
> >> hands.  One of TRP's more sympathetic
> characters, Merle
> >> in ATD, was a photographer, after all.  The
> zombie-like
> >> Boards may be in cahoots with the Fang, or they
> may just be
> >> looking for their stolen souls, but we-the-readers
> surely
> >> don't support their ripping off Denis' pictures.
> >> Spike's footage of the Chick Planet kidnapping is
> another
> >> case in point.  Spike's documentary footage
> supplies
> >> Doc with info about the bad guys, as does Fritz
> and Sparky's
> >> computer hacking.  Now if the cops were doing
> it ...
> >>> 
> >>> Laura
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> Right. Good stuff, Laura.
> >> 
> >> And the technology of cameras, and film, is right
> at the
> >> heart of ATD
> >> - the link from silver, as in silver mines, to
> silver, as
> >> in halide,
> >> and then onwards into moving pictures (pulling in
> GR and
> >> Leibniz,
> >> cannonballs, and calculus). We naturally think,
> also of
> >> 24fps, which
> >> may have ended badly, but was very much
> well-intentioned,
> >> using film
> >> technology to fight the power. If we were making a
> list of
> >> Pyncon's
> >> Themes, we'd have to include something about
> Technology,
> >> right? But
> >> whether it's ATD or IV, GR or Ok to be a Luddite,
> the key
> >> always seems
> >> to be ambivalence, the downside being a fear of
> what the
> >> technology
> >> can do in the wrong hands and, ultimately, what
> can be done
> >> once
> >> technology is literally *in* the wrong hands, eh,
> when
> >> technology
> >> crosses that human/machine boundary?
> >> 
> >> Maybe Doc watching that film of Chick Planet,
> knowing he is
> >> watching a
> >> scene which included/indludes him is very much a
> key to IV?
> >> Doc is
> >> watching a weird scene, with the spine-chilling
> thought
> >> that *he is in
> >> there, somewhere*. Which is kinda similar to
> Pynchon's
> >> perspective on
> >> IV, since he literally *is* in there somewhere, in
> the
> >> background at
> >> teh very least. It's one of, in fact I would
> reckon it's
> >> *the most*,
> >> important aspects of the book: the additional
> levels at
> >> which some
> >> sort of 'investigation' is taking place: Doc is
> >> investigating 'what
> >> happened to Mickey', but he's also sort of
> investigating
> >> what happened
> >> to The Sixties, isn't he? Pynchon the Younger is
> in there,
> >> writing GR
> >> on the beach, but he's also there as Pynchon the
> Elder,
> >> looking back
> >> on what happened to him and *his* Sixties. Most
> importantly
> >> of all, we
> >> are investigating all these levels, picking our
> way through
> >> this
> >> palimpsest, and yet we wonder, still, "is there
> more to
> >> this than
> >> meets the eye?"
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
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>