IV 15 259-261: wikipedia on 'the undead"

[John Bailey]

Just did some hunting and it seems there were a few zombies in Dark
Shadows, too.

The zombies in IV seem to be of the variety created and controlled by
human powers (or at least as human as the Golden Fang gets, anyway).
Not the chemical spill/radioactive asteroid-created sort...

Unlike thanatoids, zombies seem to be closer to the 'brainwashed'
people were mentioning earlier, and Doc seems to have an internal
notion of what zombies represent. He looks for telltale signs of
zombification in Shasta later on; the Boards zombie-ness appears
linked to 'selling out' and Coy hints that their place is wiretapped.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:55 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> last man on earth w/ vincent price is very good. an sorta early
> version of omega man
>
> rich
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kohut" <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>> To: <pynchon-l at waste.org>; "Heikki Raudaskoski" <hraudask at sun3.oulu.fi>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: IV 15 259-261: wikipedia on 'the undead"
>>
>>
>> Goes way back in folklore...inclu Arabian Nights.....Poe,
>> Lovecraft......1929 book "introduced the word 'zombie'"--Time mag
>> sez.......Haitian voodoo sources fed in 20th Century.........
>>
>> Plan 9 from Outer Space is 1959.
>>
>> Zombies not free from their 'masters' until late sixties; could not walk
>> until a year later....
>>
>> yes, Romero's film is when concept went wide in the culture, says the Great
>> Wikipedia:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie
>>
>> Yeah, the wiki list of zombie movies has an overwhelming proponderance of
>> post 1968 offerings.
>>
>> Only noticed a few exceptions
>>
>> King of the Zombies 41
>> Rovolt of the Zombies 36
>> Zombies on Broadway
>> Terror Creatures of the Grave 65
>> TGeen aghe zombies 59
>> Ouange 36
>> The Last man on Earth 64
>> The Ghost Breaker 40
>> the Dead one 61
>>
>> Dont't remember seeing any of them;/
>>
>> P
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 11/18/09, Heikki Raudaskoski <hraudask at sun3.oulu.fi> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Heikki Raudaskoski <hraudask at sun3.oulu.fi>
>>> Subject: Re: IV 15 259-261
>>> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
>>> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 9:50 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Was the resurgence of "Plan 9 from Outer Space", another
>>> zombie flick
>>> (among other things), already under way?
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> > There was Val Lewton's great "I Walked With a Zombie"
>>> in 1943 but I'm
>>> > not aware of many others (and the kind of zombie
>>> depicted in that film
>>> > is radically different to the one we're now familiar
>>> with).
>>> >
>>> > btw, recently read a fascinating article on real
>>> Haitian zombies:
>>> > http://www.mensjournal.com/into-the-zombie-underworld
>>> >
>>> > No idea what this 'men's journal' site is but ended up
>>> suckered into
>>> > reading the whole essay.
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Paul
>>> Mackin
>>> > <mackin.paul at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kohut"
>>> <markekohut at yahoo.com>
>>> >> To: "John Bailey" <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>> >> Cc: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:12 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: IV 15 259-261
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Night of the Living Dead made in my old hometown.
>>> I know someone a zombie
>>> >> extra, in it.
>>> >>
>>> >> I do not think Zombies were at all in the public
>>> consciousness.
>>> >>
>>> >> Me: Weren't there a few (maybe a lot) of zombi
>>> movies back in the 30s or
>>> >> 40s?
>>> >>
>>> >> Vague recollection.
>>> >>
>>> >> P
>>> >>
>>> >> I do know another guy who is writing a book on
>>> Zombies. He has said the
>>> >> growth of them in popular culture, all forms, has
>>> been masive.
>>> >>
>>> >> --- On Wed, 11/18/09, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> From: John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: IV 15 259-261
>>> >>> To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>> >>> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 2:03 AM
>>> >>> Re: Zombies. Night of the Living Dead
>>> >>> [1968] arguably redefined the
>>> >>> concept of the zombie in the US, and indeed
>>> made it a
>>> >>> figure of
>>> >>> popular culture in a way it hadn't been
>>> before. For the
>>> >>> P-listers
>>> >>> around at the time of IV, were zombies really
>>> part of the
>>> >>> public
>>> >>> consciousness? I know there's been a massive
>>> resurgence in
>>> >>> popularity
>>> >>> lately but are all of the zombie refs in IV
>>> appropriate to
>>> >>> the times?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Joseph Tracy
>>> <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> > Fritz calls to tell Doc Shasta landed 2
>>> days ago at
>>> >>> LAX
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Fritz Drybeam- Interesting name- Given
>>> the context,
>>> >>> one thinks of the noir
>>> >>> > film director Fritz Lang. Drybeam made me
>>> think of a
>>> >>> beam of light. Film
>>> >>> > noir is all about harsh angular lighting.
>>> FD is
>>> >>> using the Arpanet to look
>>> >>> > into hidden things but how useful his
>>> searches are is
>>> >>> not clear, and on 258
>>> >>> > he tells Doc that the FBI is watching
>>> back and asking
>>> >>> him why he is so
>>> >>> > interested in Shasta.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The line that jumps for me on this page
>>> is "Glenn
>>> >>> Charlock is still dead,
>>> >>> > but hey, who cares about the criminal
>>> element ,
>>> >>> right?"
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > He keeps complaining till Fritz says it's
>>> Doc's
>>> >>> problem now. Fritz has
>>> >>> > been spending too much time with the
>>> Arpanet and needs
>>> >>> to get back to
>>> >>> > chasing down skips and deadbeats. There
>>> is a constant
>>> >>> tension between
>>> >>> > working to address real crimes of
>>> violence and serving
>>> >>> the quasi legal
>>> >>> > machinery and interests of the powers
>>> that be.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Fritz doesn't want to look into Puck;
>>> seems to know
>>> >>> this is dangerous
>>> >>> > territory.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Clearly, my reading in the chapter
>>> summary of of the
>>> >>> incident with the gold
>>> >>> > copper traces and Noguchi was wrong. I
>>> missed the joke
>>> >>> with 'calling in the
>>> >>> > lab' and Doc was referring to an historic
>>> incident
>>> >>> where Noguchi was
>>> >>> > suspended for a month. No p-listers seem
>>> to have
>>> >>> noticed or cared.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The recurrent theme of Zombies shows up
>>> when Doc
>>> >>> watches a Zombie Movie but
>>> >>> > falls asleep before the part at the end
>>> that confuses
>>> >>> him. Zombies seem to
>>> >>> > be IV's Thanatoids, a rather darker take
>>> on the living
>>> >>> dead. Still we get
>>> >>> > the idea that Doc thinks about Zombies as
>>> karmically
>>> >>> real and doesn't want
>>> >>> > to be one. This movie is about 2
>>> brother's rivalry
>>> >>> over a woman , ending
>>> >>> > when one( manipulated buy a voodoo
>>> priest) stabs the
>>> >>> others wife and he and
>>> >>> > she end up dead, floating in the surf.
>>> Maybe P is
>>> >>> forecasting how Doc is
>>> >>> > manipulated by Bigfoot into a violent
>>> confrontation
>>> >>> with AP and PB.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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