CH 15 the hard on

[Mark Kohut]

> From: Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> Subject: CH 15 the hard on
> To: "pynchon -l" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> Date: Saturday, November 21, 2009, 9:17 PM
> Nice to have a couple extra days,
> since I have been busy turning my large crop of Cabbage into
> enough sauerkraut supply Fenway Park for a day, and 
> also finishing up a private commission. Last night I reread
> up to halfway through 18 as all that was getting dim in
> my  shortening  midterm memory, or my middling
> short term memory. But hey, we pile up the memories and then
> what ?  When do we start using them to make a few
> changes around here? Here meaning this beautiful planet
> which once teamed with life and now teams with collected and
> discarded piles  of human "wealth" and memorabilia?.
> 
> Coming back to Doc and Shasta, and in some sense, all 
> love/sex/marriage relationships of IV which taken in total
> offer a pretty broad look at the whole relationship
> spectrum  for such a short book, I feel that Pynchon is
> particularly exploring the role of fiction/fantasy in these
> relationships and working hard to squeeze insight out of
> that exploration. The particular fictions touched on
> have  to do with 1)pornography and prostitution 
> 2) old lady, old man semi committed  arrangements 3)
> fantasy of various kinds 4) marriage from ownership to
> economic arrangement to soul mates. 
>    Course it all mixes and overlaps, and
> while relationships are all to some degree fictions we tell
> ourselves, they also become the daily stuff of life.
> I see Pynchon making a strong connection between
> pornography,  and violence/exploitation.  He is
> using this in a way that borders on or engages in 
> exploitation and pornography on his part, but also has
> powerful elements of descriptive honesty. (And how accurate
> can you be about sex without being prurient and
> exploitiive.?). Examples of porn to violence: Mickey and his
> ties/ women, The pornographer who is AP's first job as a hit
> man, Doc's sexual fantasies about Manson and his acolytes,
> the broader cultural fantasies about Manson, Trillium's
> hardcore relationship with Puck leading to violence,
> Shasta's willingness to cater to fantasies leading to
> abduction,  Doc Mickey and Sloane's use of Luz and her
> fantasy of ascent through catering to hardcore sex, Blatnoyd
> and Japonica Fenway . So while it seems at first glance the
> topic is being treated lightly and with humor and catering
> to male fantasy , it is hard not to see a a very dark
> undertone to the shenanigans.
> 
> There is also a pornographic element to the recruitment of
> agents, criminals, hired killers  and cops. The promise
> of indulging in a secret life outside the boundaries of
> moral limits.
> 
Some of the relationships, some of the sex in IV, are indicative of TRPs extensive use of (often unhealthy) sex in GR as metaphor? That is, the seemingly real sex in IV is an allusion, so to speak in our allusive way, to sex as insight in GR?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 21, 2009, at 9:54 AM, Dave Monroe wrote:
> 
> > Do keep in mind, everybody, that, figuring we'd lose a
> day or two to
> > the holiday (and of course the Internet IS American
> territory,
> > right?), I didn't schedule a new chapter 'til the week
> AFTER, so,
> > Joseph, sorry, negelected to note, take yr time, and
> everybody else,
> > take the opportunity to catch up--which is what I'm
> gonna hafta
> > do--reflect, whatever.  Thanks!
> > 
> > Of course, I don't think anybody'd mind if we hit the
> ground running
> > on the next chapter after the holiday, either. 
> Or waited 'til after
> > the weekend.  Either/or.  Both/and. 
> Thanks again!
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > 
> >>> Ch. 15, pp. 256-274 -- 11/16 - 11/25/09 --
> Joseph T.
> >>> Thanksgiving break -- 11/26 - 11/29
> >>> Ch. 16, pp. 275-295 -- 11/30 - 12/06/09 --
> Mark K.
> >>> Ch. 17, pp. 296-314 -- 12/07 - 12/13/09 --
> Rich R.
> >>> Ch. 18, pp. 315-342 -- 12/14 - 12/23/09 --
> Rich R.
> >>> Christmas + New Year's Break -- 12/24/09 -
> 1/03/10
> >>> Ch. 19, pp. 343-350 -- 1/04/10 - 1/10/10 --
> Bekah
> >>> Ch. 20, pp. 351-363 -- 1/11/10 - 1/17/10 --
> Paul N.
> >>> Ch. 21, pp. 364-369 -- 1/19/10 - ... --Paul
> N.
> >>> Outro ...
> 
>