Heresy

[Page]

A couple three observations. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to 
claim non-descriptive statements instead of non-propositional. As to 
literal, (non-literal, really) statements, I have spent most of my adult 
life studying metaphor (non-literal uses of language). First as a 
philosopher and later as a hypnotherapist. I would never underplay the role 
of metaphor in all communications. People can effect tremendous changes with 
the careful use of metaphors and hypnosis. It is entirely possible --  
sometimes very easy -- to create a psychedelic experience in someone's past 
(age regression). I have done this with a client fewer than five times, only 
when it was therapeutically useful. However, I have created many such 
experiences for myself.

Keith, your comment does not evoke my ire. It takes more than that to ruffle 
my feathers.)

"Jesus Christ, if you need psychedelics, you aren't paying close enough 
attention." One thing that concerns me about such statements is the jump 
from wanting to do something to needing to do it. I never felt a need to 
take LSD, neither the first time, or any times thereafter.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith" <keithsz at mac.com>
To: "Masochistic Devotees" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Heresy


>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Page wrote:
>>
>>> Discussing experiences on LSD falls into the philosophers'
>>> category of
>>> non-propositional knowledge. That is, knowledge that cannot be
>>> passed on
>>> verbally.
>
> Thinking about that a bit, and getting Alice's lovely poem, I
> realized that
> your statement is not accurate. Non-propositional knowledge is knowledge
> that cannot be passed on propositionally. There are ways of passing on
> knowledge verbally that do not require declarative or literal
> verbalizations.
> It does require the listener to have a certain openness, unless one
> is gifted
> enough to use language in a rather forceful manner. Pynchon actually
> is, if
> you open yourself to it, and many here are.
>
> And, with all due respect to the other-ness of the LSD experience,
> there are
> ways of getting way outside ordinary consciousness that do not
> require ingestion
> of anything. I was tripping as a youngster using what I now would
> call thought
> experiments. And, with apologies for indulging in condescension, I've
> always thought,
> "Jesus Christ, if you need psychedelics, you aren't paying close
> enough attention."
>
> I know that last sentence will evoke ire, but that's what I meant by
> my assertion,
>
> "You don't know what I'm not missing."
>
> But, it's true. Hesse has a beautiful assertion of this in his
> autobiographical writings.
> Might be online somewhere, let me check.
>
> Not anywhere I can find. It's on page 142 of my old copy of
> Autobiographical Writings, in the essay, 'A Guest at the Spa.' It'll
> piss many off, too. So, don't read it, and yell at me. But, while I'm
> intelligent enough to know that I can't say anything about the acid
> experience without taking acid. Neither can anyone assert that I am
> missing something because I haven't taken it. It is possible that I
> have entered psychedelic states without it. And have spent the better
> part of a half century studying everything I can get my hands on to
> understand what those experiences were/are and how they could be
> triggered by certain intense trains of thought. The first time I
> smoked hash it blew my mind. It took me right to the place I'd been
> visiting since childhood. The thought of taking anything more
> powerfully psychedelic seemed unnecessary, and, yes, frightening.
> Maybe when I'm told I'm going to die shortly, I'll drop some acid and
> see what it does to where I've already been.
>
> You can warp the apparatus without taking a damned thing.
>


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