Heresy

[Page]

One similarity between schizophrenia and LSD is that they both can produce 
unbidden hallucinations, but they are not the same. I can tell you from 
experience that unbidden schizophrenic halluncinations are far less pleasant 
than hallucinations from LSD. Perhaps so-called flashbacks would be as 
unpleasant, but I have never had one and cannot attest to it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bekah" <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Keith" <keithsz at mac.com>
Cc: "Masochistic Devotees" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Heresy


>I remember reading eons ago,  another lifetime,  that the experience
> of LSD was similar to that of  schizophrenia.    Current research
> shows that it apparently doesn't do that,  but it does do something a
> bit similar.    If a similar experience is found in nature,  perhaps
> there are people who can get into an LSD-like trip without the drug.
> Some might even be able to control it but that's another thing about
> LSD,  it's not about control.
>
> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23270344-23109,00.html
>
> Bekah
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Keith wrote:
>
>>> On Sep 13, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Page wrote:
>>>
>>>> Discussing experiences on LSD falls into the philosophers'
>>>> category of
>>>> non-propositional knowledge. That is, knowledge that cannot be
>>>> passed on
>>>> verbally.
>>
>> Thinking about that a bit, and getting Alice's lovely poem, I
>> realized that
>> your statement is not accurate. Non-propositional knowledge is
>> knowledge
>> that cannot be passed on propositionally. There are ways of passing on
>> knowledge verbally that do not require declarative or literal
>> verbalizations.
>> It does require the listener to have a certain openness, unless one
>> is gifted
>> enough to use language in a rather forceful manner. Pynchon actually
>> is, if
>> you open yourself to it, and many here are.
>>
>> And, with all due respect to the other-ness of the LSD experience,
>> there are
>> ways of getting way outside ordinary consciousness that do not
>> require ingestion
>> of anything. I was tripping as a youngster using what I now would
>> call thought
>> experiments. And, with apologies for indulging in condescension,
>> I've always thought,
>> "Jesus Christ, if you need psychedelics, you aren't paying close
>> enough attention."
>>
>> I know that last sentence will evoke ire, but that's what I meant by
>> my assertion,
>>
>> "You don't know what I'm not missing."
>>
>> But, it's true. Hesse has a beautiful assertion of this in his
>> autobiographical writings.
>> Might be online somewhere, let me check.
>>
>> Not anywhere I can find. It's on page 142 of my old copy of
>> Autobiographical Writings, in the essay, 'A Guest at the Spa.' It'll
>> piss many off, too. So, don't read it, and yell at me. But, while
>> I'm intelligent enough to know that I can't say anything about the
>> acid experience without taking acid. Neither can anyone assert that
>> I am missing something because I haven't taken it. It is possible
>> that I have entered psychedelic states without it. And have spent
>> the better part of a half century studying everything I can get my
>> hands on to understand what those experiences were/are and how they
>> could be triggered by certain intense trains of thought. The first
>> time I smoked hash it blew my mind. It took me right to the place
>> I'd been visiting since childhood. The thought of taking anything
>> more powerfully psychedelic seemed unnecessary, and, yes,
>> frightening. Maybe when I'm told I'm going to die shortly, I'll drop
>> some acid and see what it does to where I've already been.
>>
>> You can warp the apparatus without taking a damned thing.
>
> http://web.mac.com/bekker2/
>
>
>


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