V-2nd Dopplegangers

[Joseph Tracy]

On Aug 19, 2010, at 7:17 PM, rich wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>  
> wrote:
>>
>> What Pynchon is talking about is not a particular conflict, but a  
>> deeper
>> pattern. He is not saying the scenes in SW Africa is "about'  
>> Vietnam, or
>> about the holocaust, but that the essential character of the  
>> conflict, the
>> net effect of the conflict is not a narrow bit of  warfare between  
>> nations
>> but the destruction of a culture and a way of being. The dragons/  
>> gators/
>> grendel man beasts being slain  are circular forces of nature and
>> psychologically or mythically the ancient worldview sees them as  
>> eternal,
>> and wisdom as being in harmonic or cooperative relation to them,  
>> where the
>> "modern" logical  notion is that they are materials to be used ,  
>> colonized,
>> analyzed and shaped to human will. But for some reason persuasion  
>> is never
>> enough. First the "primitive" mind must be destroyed.
>>
>>
>> Somehow whenever those in charge of the war machine give up on the  
>> doctrine
>> of winning hearts and minds through high explosives, quietly leave  
>> and stop
>> demonizing  the "primitive" Afghan, Communist, Native .... those  
>> people
>>  stop being the the epicenter of evil. Then , rather than look in  
>> the mirror
>> we relocate the cause of he world's problems to a new place where  
>> bombs can
>> be dropped.
> ____________
> I get yr (and Pynchon's point) about exploitation and outright murder
> of "primitives" so-called but that argument or explanation can only so
> far.
> without forgetting the brutalities of modern expansionist countries
> let's not overemphasize how integrated and united these "primitives"
> are/were. I think Pynchon gets all hung up on his romantics at times,
> particularly w/r/t to native americans. that was a strong vibe in the
> 60s in leftist circles for sure.
> so yes I lament wounded knee and as much as I do my lai but I can't
> say ultimately that some huge and beautiful perfect society was laid
> waste. I lament the loss of loved ones, familes, individuals, not
> societies
>
> and I do hope alice's son gets back home safe
>
> rich
Well I hope alice/Terrance's son and every soldier decides to lay  
down their weapons and leave Afghanistan to the Afghans and comes  
home to work for Democracy in the U.S. Leave Afghanistan to the  
Afghans and  to those who go in peace and friendship to build  
schools, hospitals, and legal  non exploitive businesses. I have been  
around awhile and I don't think Pynchon projects romantic perfection  
on pre industrial and tribal peoples. But in my opinion the value and  
beauty of these peoples is not just their individual lives but their  
collective cultures.  All societies  change and adapt , but there are  
ways to change without  violence , degradation and extermination.   
People talk as though OK , sad about the natives but look what a  
great country we have built.   My reaction is much like yours. I  
can't see some huge beautiful perfect society. I see an ocean of  
cars, malls, pizza joints, more cars, parking lots,  hamburger  
stands, ugly buildings, pretty buildings, roads, lots of burning,  
lots of heat, entire cities lt up all night every night, constant  
pointless wars, lots of food from far away, garages full of shit,   
and overweight  unhappy people. Did I mention how man cars there are?