anyone see a Mason & Dixon resonance here?

[malignd at aol.com]

Fiedler's book can certainly be criticized as overly Freudian.  And I 
don't think any such theory is explanatory in a "there's the answer" 
way.  But it's rich, well written, well argued, and a lot of fun to 
read.  And there is the fact that a lot of American fiction is about 
male-male bonding.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
To: malignd at aol.com
Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 6:35 pm
Subject: Re: anyone see a Mason & Dixon resonance here?


I never understood the quick leap to homoeroticism. My take is that 
itis largely projection. Are all women friends unconsumated 
lesbians,too? Our society is in deep shit if every friendship is 
Freudian wheneveryone who puts a good, solid half hour of research into 
it knowsFreud's methods and conclusions were unsupported and 
thoroughlymistaken. Then again, maybe the wish that Freud's 
oversimplificationswere acceptable that has contributed to put our 
society into such deepshit....On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:10 PM,  
<malignd at aol.com> wrote:> Read Leslie Fiedler's Love and Death in the 
American Novel for a rich> discusision of unconsumated homoerotic love 
as an enduring theme in American> fiction.  Two men lighting out across 
the country.  It doesn't begin with> Pycnhon.>>> -----Original 
Message-----> From: Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>> To: Mark 
Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>> Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>; me 
<mark.kohut at gmail.com>> Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2010 12:52 am> Subject: Re: 
anyone see a Mason & Dixon resonance here?>>> And don't forget the 
Baghavad-Gita, Huck and Nigger Jim, Batman andRobin,> Friday and 
Gannon....On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Mark Kohut> 
<markekohut at yahoo.com> wrote:>> I know two guys doing stuff in a novel, 
any> fiction, must go further> back than I have ever read. (Iliad? NOT 
Genesis,> but yes Gilgamesh, right?)>> Up thru many we can name BUT, to 
set de> Tocqueville off with another character as they travel America 
sure seems to> suggest Carey has read M & D, I'd say.>>>>>>>>>>>> OFF 
THEY GO>> Jan 28th> 2010>>>>>> PARROT AND OLIVIER IN AMERICA. By Peter 
Carey. KNOPF; 452>>> PAGES;>> $26.95. FABER AND FABER; GBP18.99. Buy 
 from Amazon.com[1],>>> Amazon.co.uk[2]>>>> UNIVERSALLY celebrated as a 
classic when it was first>>> published in>> 1835, Alexis de 
Tocqueville's "Democracy in America">>> nevertheless>> suffered from 
long years in the shadows. The centenary of>>> the author's>> birth in 
1905 went uncelebrated. No new edition of the book>>> appeared>> 
between 1913 and 1945. The best that Tocqueville got was>> the> 
occasional>> reference in a learned footnote.>>>> Today Tocqueville is> 
revered as never before. The>> bicentennial of his>> birth was the 
occasion> for academic bacchanalias on both>> sides of the>> Atlantic. 
No fewer than> four new editions of "Democracy">> have appeared>> in 
the past decade. Books> on the great man pour from the>> printing>> 
presses, ranging in quality from> ponderous academic tomes>> to Hugh>> 
Brogan's delightful biography.>>>> Now> we have an unexpected addition 
to the Tocqueville>> renaissance: a>>> fictional account of his visit 
to the United States by a>> much garlanded>>> novelist. "Parrot and 
Olivier" has all the quirky qualities>> that we>> have> come to expect 
 from Peter Carey: a winding narrative,>> a mass of>> vivid> historical 
detail, and some very lively writing.>>>> The story of> Tocqueville's 
visit was an extraordinary one>> in its own>> right. He was> only 25 
when he crossed the Atlantic,>> dispatched by the>> French> government 
to study America's penal system. But as>> he travelled>> around> the 
new country Tocqueville became obsessed with the>> idea that>> he was> 
witnessing the future in the making, the rise of a>> new>> democratic 
world.> A treatise on prisons became a meditation>> on the new>> world 
order.>>>>> This extraordinary tale is rendered even more 
extraordinary>> in Mr>>> Carey's retelling. The author tells his story 
through the>> eyes of two>>> characters. Olivier is his version of 
Tocqueville--a French>> aristocrat>>> haunted by the horrors of the 
revolution and the glories of>> the world>> it> destroyed ("the fine 
powder on the men's wigs, the>> lovely perfumes>> on> the ladies 
breasts, the extraordinary palette of the>> ancient regime,>>> such 
pinks and greens, gorgeous silks and satins whose>> colours rose and>>> 
fell among the folds and melted into the candlelight").>> Parrot is 
an>>> itinerant English printer who--thanks to an>> over-complicated 
plot--ends>>> up as Olivier's servant-cum-minder. The narrative 
shifts>> constantly>>> between the perspectives of the travelling 
duo.>>>> The leading characters> are beautifully drawn. Olivier is a>> 
fastidious>> prig and congenital> hypochondriac. Parrot is an English>> 
radical--he>> reads Tom Paine and> spits on the ancient regime--who 
is>> obsessed by>> art. Olivier is> initially repulsed by America but 
falls in>> love with a>> saucy American> woman, and hence with the 
country. Parrot>> finds a home>> and a business in> America.>>>> Mr 
Carey's parallel storytelling provides him with more>> than> just a 
way>> of exploring two idiosyncratic heroes. It allows him to>> offer> 
shifting>> perspectives on the third character in this book--America>>> 
itself.>> Olivier moves in what boorish Americans regard as 
civilised>>> society.>> Parrot is at home in the artistic demimonde. 
The result is>> a> gripping>> portrait of Jacksonian America in all its 
wild variety,>> from> its model>> farms to its grungy boarding-houses, 
 from its Fourth of>> July> parades to>> its filthy streets full of 
copulating pigs.>>>> "Parrot and> Olivier" is a wonderful tribute to>> 
Tocqueville's great>> book. But it is> more than that: it is also a 
counterblast.>> One of>> Tocqueville's greatest> fears was that 
democracy would kill>> great art.>> Everything would be> reduced to the 
dismal level of>> democratic man.>> Parrot dismisses this> fear as a 
phantom. "There are no sans>> culottes,>> nor will there ever be> 
again. There is no tyranny in>> America, nor ever>> could be," he says 
to> his master. "Your bleak certainty>> that there can>> be no art in 
a> democracy is unsupported by truth." Which>> points to a>> wonderful 
paradox:> the very fact that we now revere>> Tocqueville to the>> point 
of writing> novels about him is proof that one of his>> guiding>> ideas 
about the evils> of democracy was bunkum, if>> magnificent bunkum.>>>> 
----->> [1]> 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0307592626/theeconomists-20>> 
[2]>>> 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0571253296/economistshop-21>>>>>>>>> 
See this article with graphics and related items at> 
http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15391378&fsrc=rss>>>>> 
Go to http://www.economist.com for more global news, views>> and 
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