Femenist reading of IV

[rich]

woman is the nigger of the world. what else to say?

I think IV is as feminist as Quentin Tarantino (IMHO). not a criticism,
Pynchon's obsessions lay elsewhere (IMHO)

rich

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:17 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> There are different types of feminism (endlessly debated among academics),
> but what I mean when I use the word is a critique or outlook that asks:  how
> does what exists effect women?  How can we change things to make life more
> equitable for women?  Are the things I myself do helpful or harmful to other
> women?
>
> Some women arrive at this theoretically, others from a gut level.  An
> aspect of this sort of feminism is trying to be aware of the situation of
> women:  are there women represented here in equal numbers?  WHy or why not?
>  How do men (and women) distort the image of women to control them?
>
> There's a distorted view of feminism that was created in response to the
> resurgent feminism of the early 70s:  the rich, powerful bitch AS feminist.
>  This encompasses Penny (in IV) as well as Hillary Clinton, Margaret
> Thatcher, progressive political leaders like Kenya's Wangari Maathai, and
> Sarah Palin.  It pretends admiration at how strong and powerful these women
> are, while irrevocably branding them as manipulative bitches, regardless of
> their politics or place in the world.  Subtle but effective for keeping
> women in their place.  Then there are femme fatale types like Shasta who
> manipulate men with sex.  In short, the image of a strong woman can contain
> its own negation, when used by the powers that be.  And while some may see
> IV as a critique of all this, I think it's a failed critique at best.  At
> worst, it's more of the same old crap about women.
>
> You can say that sexually liberated stewardii are some sort of precursor of
> feminism.  But then so are wife-beaters, because they presage the need for
> feminists to come together to create battered women's shelters.
>
> Laura
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mark Kohut <markekohut at yahoo.com>
> >Sent: Feb 19, 2010 12:52 PM
> >To: pynchon-l at waste.org, kelber at mindspring.com
> >Subject: Re: Femenist reading of IV
> >
> >I am trying to find a feminist (that so hard to define concept) principle,
> part of the 2nd wave feminist agenda in the empowerment of women in the
> sixties. Not just reducing women (or feminism) to sexual assertiveness, but
> in IV, we have those career women in the D.A.s office....Shasta, budding
> actress (does this count?)....
> >
> >No, there are no feminists in this work as there were at the time.......
> >Doc knows none, it seems....has those slacker 'friends' [slacker is
> anachronous, I know)......
> >
> >compare to Oedipa, wife caught in the tower until her quest starts......
> >
> >compare to housewives in Mailer's, Updike's, many lesser writers' fictions
> >of the time. Or JC Oates for that matter.
> >
> >--- On Fri, 2/19/10, kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >> From: kelber at mindspring.com <kelber at mindspring.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Femenist reading of IV
> >> To: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 11:07 AM
> >> There may be an overlap between
> >> lesbianism and feminism, but it's not as great as one might
> >> think.  There were real feminists out there in the 60s
> >> and 70s, but they're not portrayed in IV.  Reducing
> >> feminism to sexual assertiveness is kind of insulting.
> >> And sure, bad girls (and guys) are more interesting than
> >> good guys(and girls), but that doesn't imply any feminist
> >> underpinnings.  The femme fatale (whether she wins or
> >> loses) is a sexist stereotype.
> >>
> >> Laura
> >>
> >> (in rant mode because I'm pre-caffeinated)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >From: rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
> >> >Sent: Feb 19, 2010 9:39 AM
> >> >To: Robin Landseadel <robinlandseadel at comcast.net>
> >> >Cc: pynchon-l at waste.org
> >> >Subject: Re: Femenist reading of IV
> >> >
> >> >though I have some minor quibbles (are we equating
> >> feminist markers with
> >> >pussy eating?-that sounds weird to me), I would admit
> >> that Shasta is the
> >> >most intriguing character in the book. Doc is a tool
> >> (not that kinda tool,
> >> >well maybe a little bit) for more interesting folks
> >> like Coy (but less than
> >> >Shasta) he's not that great an observer, having Shasta
> >> nail him with that
> >> >you all wanted to be cops spiel. e.g. (just like I
> >> think Frenesi is alot
> >> >more interesting than Zoyd--maybe Pynchon wanted to
> >> give the gals a break
> >> >after Frenesi and Lake--Shasta seems more with it,
> >> together, than the other
> >> >two)
> >> >
> >> >On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Robin Landseadel
> >> <
> >> >robinlandseadel at comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Have to say i more or less agree with "He Who
> >> Would Be Alice."
> >> >>
> >> >> "Inherent Vice" is just overloaded with feminist
> >> markers—Ida Lupino and the
> >> >> "Pussy Eater's Special" among others—little
> >> subplots that actively address
> >> >> feminist themes. Of course there is a fair bit of
> >> Russ Meyer in the mix in
> >> >> Vineland and to a lesser but similar extent, in
> >> IV. It's a little hard to
> >> >> get these two particular conceptual frameworks to
> >> jibe together in a single
> >> >> mind, but there you are.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not that I'm an Anti-Semenist, mind you.
> >> >>
> >> >> Next up: Feminist readings of R. Crumb . . .
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Feb 18, 2010, at 7:29 PM, alice wellintown
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>  Well, you have to dive a little deeper into
> >> that muff. This stuff
> >> >>> ain't floating on the surface.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 9:21 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> more like a Semenist reading in my book
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 3:36 PM, alice
> >> wellintown
> >> >>>> <alicewellintown at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Perhaps nothing Pynchon has written to
> >> date  . . .
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>  http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/61/61womeninprison.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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